Heating Costs - 5 bedroom Semi Detached

thenagaraja

Hi All,

I am hoping I can get some advice on how to reduce my energy costs except for moving home, and understand why its so high.

Occupants:
4 adults and 1 baby (2 adults home all day, 2 adults home all evening)


Appliances:
Bosch RD542i Combi boiler with thermostat
2 gas fireplaces (used in absolute cold only)
1 radiator in each room (each has its own TRV)
1 fridge and 2 freezers
1 tumble dryer
1 5-hob gas oven


House:
1880 Built 5 bedroom semi
Solid brick walls ~100mm thick

Ground Floor - 2 lounges, 1 WC, 1 dining room and kitchen
Basement (same size as above's 2 lounges)
1st Floor - 3 bedrooms and 1 bathroom
2nd floor - 2 bedrooms and 1 bathroom

Ground Floor is 3.7M high
1st Floor is 2.7M high
2nd Floor is 2.1m high

Detached on right side of property
Attached at ground and 1st floor to left side of property (church hall)


Energy Usage
48000 kwH gas per year
6500 kWh electricity per year
~£2800 per year
~£240 (£160 gas/£80 electricity) average per month
Highest gas usage is Jan-April (winter of course)
~£50 gas/£80 electricity average during summer months (jun,jul,aug)


Eco Actions So Far
Thermostat set to 21 and cycles on 2 hours on @ 6am, 2hours on @ 10am, 3 hours on @3pm and 4 hours on @8pm. ~11 hours per day on.

Halogen or CFL bulbs on all lighting, no lights unnecessarily on except hallway

PC and TVs are left on standby when not used, not turned off

Tumble dryer only used when clothes are washed and need to be dried as its raining outside, not generally.

TRVs on radiators set to max for the coldest rooms and min for warmest rooms so the thermostat can run at 21 without overcooking anyone!

No baths, only showers ~4 each day total.

Triple glazing front of house and double glazing back of house

Ground and 1st floor insulated underfloor boards

Loft insulated





What I See As Problems
1. 5 gas hob uses a lot of a gas , a lot of cooking usually takes place every other day - is there any way to reduce the gas

2. Hot water usage seems to me as high use of gas also - how do I setup my particular boiler to run the hot water more efficiently?

3. The church hall on the attached side of the property is mainly unheated and used once a day for 2 hours. - anything I can do to reduce heatloss to the adjacent "colder" property?

4. How to reduce energy costs without big outlays?



I have done a green deal assessment and solid wall insulation has come up and may get significant funding towards it. This should save £500 a year, bringing my gas bill to an average £118 per month rather than £160 - which is a saving over the years but not as much as I hoped.

From the many people here, what do you expect as a typical gas and electric (total energy) bill £ per month for 5 bed, 4 adult+1baby as described above?

Please feel free to ask any more questions about the details of the house or usage etc?

Thanks in advance to all those who reply!

penrhyn

21 degrees is a bit high, I never have my room stat higher than 19, mind you thats in the main living room.
I take it you have at least 6-10 inches of insulation in the loft, draft proofing and thick curtains you can draw.

If you have a hot water tank is it well lagged?

Cardew

£500 reduction in heating costs for solid wall insulation on a semi-detached is highly optimistic IMO. Did the firm give you that estimate?

Your electricity consumption, whilst high, is not excessive(again IMO).
It is your gas that is the problem.

You can't really 'set-up' a combi boiler to heat water more efficiently; it heats water on an 'as required' basis.

The TRVs in the bedrooms(and any other room not in use) should be turned off until, say, an hour before they are to be used.

FOREVER21

WINTER - Under £150 per month

Gas consumption does seem rather high average pa is 16500 kwhs . We are in 4 bed detached, 2 adults in most of the day thermostat set at 23 (yes I know that some will say this is too high) but I quote it for comparison to the OP in winter months heating is on normally from 08.30 till 21.30 and our yearly gas useage has never exceeded 18000 kwhs.

You mention you have a bosch boiler has it got an eco setting for the hot water? ours has ,we use that, water temperature is sufficient for dish washing and baths.

Might be worth a try

PS We had cavity wall insulation installed and hardly noticed any saving certainly would query £500.

matelodave

WINTER - Under £150 per month

Try a programmable thermostat to reduce the heating temp during the day rather than closing it right down, you might find that you can get away with lower temps during the day when people are more active. Limit the amount of time people are in the shower - make it 4 mins max ( or wet your self, turn shower off, wash & shampoo, turn shower on to rinse - reduces both water & energy consumption). Turn the boiler hot water temp down a bit, especially in the summer. Only fill the kettle with enough water for what you need

I can't see that insulating solid walls will be cost effective. You could try electronic TRV valve heads (Pegler - with timers http://www.screwfix.com/p/terrier-i-temp-i30-programmable-thermostatic-radiator-valve/71054 ) to control bedrooms. You could perhaps top up the loft insulation to 300mm if it isn't already.

Halogen bulbs aren't really eco friendly, try LEDs, especially if you've got spots in the kitchen (our 10x50 watts is now 10x4 watts, saving 460watt an hour). Turn off stuff that's on standby, you could save £50-£100 especially with PCs, game consoles, DVD players, phone chargers etc.

closed

dont set trv's to max, they'll never turn off, switch to led lights for non cfl, reduce shower times. gas hobs use little in the grand scheme of things, and heat the house in winter too. use one freezer instead of 2, and make sure they aren't over chilling 4c,-18c

turn pc's and monitors off

thenagaraja

WINTER - Over £150 per month

Hi Everyone, thanks for the replies - i never got an update to see the thread.

Interesting to see that the electricity is probably not so high, with most agreed its the gas that is the killer.

To answer everyone's posts in one:

1. Yes we have 300mm in loft
2. Yes we have draft proofing
3. Very thick and heavy curtains always drawn at sunset (or just before)
4. No hot water tank
5. The £500 saving is from EST and 2 separate surveying companies as the house is solid singe brick wall and with much exposed walls to "cold" air
6. @Cardew - why turn off the TRV if the heating is not running, whats the difference?
7.@Forever21 - wow, I can only wish for 18000kwH - and yes the ECO setting on the boiler is turned on all the time
8. We have a programmable thermostat and do exactly what you said
9. 4 Minutes per shower might be difficult, even by my "quick standards" it takes 8-10 minutes
10. Boiler water temp definitely turned down during summer already
11. Kettle always filled with desired water no surplus
12. Solid wall insulation under Green deal £7000 grant towards ~£12000 cost, so £5000 paid as savings i.e.. £500 a year plus small interest. (google "green deal" for the golden rule)
13. Considered LEDs buy most of the room lights are running dimmable "chandeliers" apparently you need special fittings and switches if using dimmable LEDs?
14. Most of us are probably too lazy to turn it off rather than standby for the regular devices, even with the multi plug adapters with the remote sensor its use is often confusing and turns the device off when trying to turn it on...ggrrrr lol
15. Why not set TRV to max, especially if a room struggles to get hot?
16. House is heated in winter?
17. We will struggle to use one freezer instead of 2 (5 people way too much stuff) - especially with the fridge is not a combi f/f.
18 Freezers are set to the "eco" "i care option" (literally called that)

thenagaraja

WINTER - Over £150 per month

Today the green deal company will be carrying a survey on the costs of doing the work i.e. areas, scaffolding, time and waste management etc.

I will soon hear how much the ECO Grant will pay, how much the CSCO grant will pay and the remainder via Green deal.

There will be a lot of emphasis on adjusting the payments based on what I save, no saving = no payment (for the remainder that goes on green deal).

Let us see what happens, thanks again for your inputs - I still welcome more, hopefully no duplicates

macman

It'll take you many many years to get back the cost of solid wall insulation. You live in a older large property with no cavity walls and it's inevitably going to leak heat. It appears that you've already taken most measures possible to improve the insulation.
OTOH, turning the 'stat down 1 degree will, (anecdotally) instantly take 10% of your heating bills. 21C seems very high to me-I find 19C or 19.5C adequate most of the time.

Cardew

thenagaraja wrote: »

6. @Cardew - why turn off the TRV if the heating is not running, whats the difference?


14. Most of us are probably too lazy to turn it off rather than standby for the regular devices, even with the multi plug adapters with the remote sensor its use is often confusing and turns the device off when trying to turn it on...ggrrrr lol

15. Why not set TRV to max, especially if a room struggles to get hot?

Re 6 - Not understood. What I said was:

The TRVs in the bedrooms(and any other room not in use) should be turned off until, say, an hour before they are to be used.

Obviously it makes no difference when the boiler isn't running, but when boiler operates to heat living rooms you don't need to heat bedrooms.

Re 14 - Standby consumption of most electrical items these days is tiny - all my TVs are below 1 watt so if left on standby 24/7 will cost less than £1 a year. Anyway your problem is gas consumption.

Re 15 If a room 'struggles to get hot', turning up the TRV won't help unless your TRV is faulty.

A TRV set to, say, 3 will remain open(i.e. allowing hot water to the radiator) until the room temperature reaches the required setting(e.g. a setting of 3 = 20C)

Setting it to Max(e.g a setting of 24C) won't make any difference in getting the room up to 20C. The water entering the radiator(s) will be at the same temperature regardless of the TRV setting. That temperature of water is set on the boiler.

If some radiators get hotter quicker than others, it might be that your CH system needs to be balanced see:

http://www.efficient-heating-solutions.co.uk/kb/st-rad-faqs/1309-balancing-a-central-heating-system-how-to-check-your-radiators-are-working-properly.html

P.S. I don't seen any way that you will save £500 a year on a semi with solid wall insulation

Ben84

I also think that the gas hob is largely irrelevant. While they might be somewhere you notice the gas burning most of all, they just don't use that much. Meanwhile, heating radiators and hot water are likely to be the main gas user.

You might be able to reduce gas use with a water saving shower head - depending on what you have at the moment?

I'd also consider the fireplaces, as chimneys are a major source of heat loss in many houses. Ironically, you may only be using these fireplaces because of the cold air they leak in to the room. Since removing various fireplaces around our house, we've significantly improved the average temperature in these rooms and have never once wanted the fireplaces back. The central heating is more than sufficient now, where before it struggled.