Parking Charge for Dropping Off/Picking up in restricted area

Henry_Mellish

Following advice on a previous question to search the forum I have done so. I think that if no notice to driver was issued the then the charge must be received within 14 days? Am I correct please? The date of contravention was 9-8-12 ad the notice was 4th september. so it is within 28 days as a notice to keeper which I believe it should not be? But I am unsure about the 14 day limit. Have read loads and trying to get my head round which regulations would apply to dropping off rather than parking.

Guys_Dad

Well, we need just a little more.

You live in England?
Private road? If so, where?
Parking company?

Actually, if no windscreen ticket was issued, they have 15 days to get the NtK in your hand,

So, I know you may be a little worried about giving away too much, but less obtuse please and we can really help.

Henry_Mellish

On an airport road in England, where I also live. Hopefully that's enough info? Or is more needed. Thanks for reply

Coupon-mad

It's always easier if you reply on your own original thread each time so we can all follow your situation and what you already posted:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4759573

''Received one of these from Uk Parking Patrol office for dropping off in '1315 roads surrounding Newcastle airport....' I believe that the driver off the vehicle dropped off a passenger before the barrier to the short stay car park and the turned round. The charge is in relation to dropping off and is for £100. As its on airport land does the charge have any basis that can be pursued?''

And yes you are right - your research is correct. They have posted this too late for registered keeper liability - which is really common with PPCs at Airports!

These threads should help (just DO NOT imply who was driving in your challenge!):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4735050

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4707633

HTH, do a strong challenge and if you get that challenge rejected, then you'll need to read up on POPLA appeal wording to win it at that stage instead.

Henry_Mellish

Thanks for your reply coupon mad. Due to he fact I worry intensely about things I don't need to I submitted a letter based on yours on a thread that you linked the last question to. It was about airport bye laws etc. Have I now excluded the ability to appeal as it is outside of 14 days or should I submit a second letter based on the 14 day period? Any advice gratefully received

Guys_Dad

Dear PPC,

I refer you to your letter of 4th September 2013. This letter alleges that, on 9th August, vehicle xxxxxx was allegedly seen dropping off a restricted road. Presumably you have obtained my name and address as the keeper of the said vehicle under the provisions of the POFA 2012.

The said act has certain mandatory obligations imposed on parking companies and one of these is a strict timescale for PPCs to contact a keeper of a vehicle.

In the case of ANPR situations where vehicles did not receive a windscreen ticket, the timescale is 14 days from the day after the alleged contravention. This provision is so that the keeper is in a position to recall who was driving at that time.

You have failed to adhere to the legally required timescale and I, therefore, am not obligated to advise you who was driving and your right to transfer liability onto the keeper has been lost.

Under these circumstances, you are asked to cancel the ticket forthwith, or, if you really want to waste £27 and think you stand a chance at POPLA, by all means send me a POPLA code and we can go through the charade of you trying your luck when you know that you are bang to rights on this one.

I await your decision,


Yours faithfully,

The keeper.

Henry_Mellish

Thanks for that. Should I also mention this is in addition to an original challenge?

Guys_Dad

Technically, you did not need to make a previous appeal.

You had better let us know what you wrote, in case it could blow my suggested letter out of the water. Please tell me you didn't admit it was you who was driving.

Henry_Mellish

I used this letter with the company name changed so no driver was identified. I panicked and sent this reply before any responses to this 14 day query


What?! Paying isn't an option except if you like being scammed. VCS do not need to be paid because you will beat them at POPLA. Have you not yet searched found the couple of other RH Airport threads on here yet, as I suggested above, you only need one keyword 'Robin' to find them. And a search of 'VCS' would find other VCS cases recently which you can also read to see that no-one pays, they all now appeal to POPLA and win!

Is the Notice clearly headed up 'Notice to Keeper' then, so not a misleading title? They sent it in time as well?

What about making a combination of points (but shorter than the template you found)? So summat like:


''Date: / /2013


Dear Sir/Madam,

‘Notice to Owner/Keeper’ ref number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

It is clear from your Notice of ../8/2013 that you issued it with a view to pursuing keeper liability under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA). The BPA Code of Practice (CoP) supports the need for strict compliance (para 21.5 refers).

I write to challenge the Notice and to inform you that VCS has failed to meet the strict requirements that might have enabled you to pursue this matter with myself (the registered keeper) if this had been 'relevant land' as defined in the POFA (which I contend it is not). In summary, you have issued a defective Notice to attempt to claim from me a charge for which I have no liability.

For the avoidance of doubt, I will not be divulging the details of the driver on the day so do not send me your standard time-wasting response pretending that you have to know who was driving. The BPA have recently reminded firms in your 'industry' that this 'name the driver' response is not acceptable - you and I both know your only options within your industry CoP are either to accept my challenge now or reject it and provide me with a POPLA code immediately.

On Airport land no keeper liability generally applies at all, due to local Bylaws taking precedence. All the land and surrounding approach roads are Airport-owned and covered by Bylaws and, as such, the Airport is not 'relevant land' under POFA. There is no registered keeper liability. You will need to provide evidence, substantiated by the Airport authorities, that this land is not covered by Bylaws if the Notice is to be pursued against myself as the registered keeper. Without that, you have no cause to have obtained by data from the DVLA and certainly no further cause of action.

In addition, I would draw your attention to the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (hereinafter CPUTR). No doubt your legal advisors will be able to explain the various issues which cause your flawed Notice to be a nullity in law. A specific flaw with your Notice is that it fails to include specific identification as to who 'the Creditor' may be. This is misleading and not compliant, in regards to paragraph 9(2)(h) of Schedule 4 of the POFA. Whilst your Notice has indicated that you require a payment to be made to VCS, there is no specific identification of the Creditor, who may, in law, be VCS or some other party. The POFA requires a ‘Notice to Keeper’ to have words to the effect that 'The Creditor is….' and your Notice does not.

If - rather than cancel this 'Notice' - you decide to fund my POPLA appeal, I will require in your evidence pack, a copy of your contract with the landowner which you are relying upon. If it is a redacted copy then there must still be evidence in the document which shows that the contract complies with the CoP and specifically allows VCS to pursue these 'charges' in their own name as creditor, in the courts. I will not accept a witness statement in this regard, since it would not be acceptable in a Court.

This contract document will be required in addition to the documentary evidence already mentioned above, namely contemporaneous evidence from the Airport owners that this approach road is not covered by Bylaws.

And I will require maps of the entire area, marked clearly with pictograms or notes showing every sign's position and the exact wording which was on the signs on the date of the alleged incident. As the registered keeper, I can tell you that the driver contends that the signage is unclear; being particularly deficient at the entrance to this road where it fails to inform full terms. Prominent, clear signs are a strict requirement of the CoP and are especially important in an area you are now apparently claiming is a no-stopping zone, bearing in mind that this is an area of moving traffic where a driver will not have had a chance to read and understand any alleged contractual terms merely signposted in VCS' typical unclear 'headings above small-print' style.

If you pursue the matter against me as registered keeper and issue any further correspondence or make any form of contact (except to cancel the charge or reject the challenge and send me details of how to appeal to POPLA) this will be considered harassment. In that event I will lodge an official complaint with the BPA Ltd and the DVLA AOS Compliance Manager, as well as with the Office of the Information Commissioner. I also reserve the right to forward a complaint to the relevant Trading Standards office concerning your commercial practices which which appear to be in breach of the CPUTR and the CoP.

Take formal notice that I will of course include your client (Airport owners) in any complaints and, in addition, they will be named as jointly and severally liable in any future court claim I may seek to lodge with MCOL, for damages for harassment and specific breaches of the above Acts.

I do not expect to receive a ‘generic’ template response and which fails to address the specific issues that I have raised with you. No further correspondence will be entered into, except a POPLA appeal which I will gladly submit if VCS choose to fund that stage. No further warning will be given if I pursue the matter through the Small Claims Track against VCS and your client at this site.

I therefore expect you to immediately cancel the ‘parking charge’ and inform me in writing that you have done so. In addition, VCS are required to remove my personal data (and that of the vehicle) from all formats of storage, immediately following cancellation, since you have no lawful excuse to keep a registered keeper's data under the circumstances.

Yours faithfully,

PRINT NAME' (no need to give them your real signature)''

Guys_Dad

And the reply was????

Henry_Mellish

Not had one yet as only just sent it. So not sure whether to send the 2nd letter or not about the 14 days