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Retail park Car parking ticket

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  • edited 19 November 2013 at 7:27PM
    Coupon-madCoupon-mad Forumite
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    edited 19 November 2013 at 7:27PM
    Further to your private message for help!

    Instead of your story of 'what happened' which will NOT WIN, use this version as you are struggling to do a POPLA appeal and I had a similar one to copy from already. You must staple it securely to the POPLA form and put the correct verification code clearly on every page. Tick 3 out of 4 boxes on the form before you sign it (just not the stolen car option):




    Dear POPLA Assessor,
    UKPC verification code xxxxxxxxxx

    I am the registered keeper and I wish to appeal a recent parking charge from UKPC. I believe I am not liable for the parking charge on the following grounds:

    1) No standing or authority to pursue charges nor form contracts with drivers
    UKPC do not own the land mentioned in their Notice to Keeper and have not provided any evidence that they are lawfully entitled to demand money from a driver or keeper. Under the BPA CoP Section 7, a landowner contract must specifically allow UKPC to pursue charges in their own name in the courts and grant them the right to form contracts with drivers. I require UKPC to produce a copy of the contract with the landowner as I believe it is not compliant with the CoP and without it, UKPC have no legal standing nor authority at this site which could impact on visiting drivers.

    In ParkingEye v Sharma, Case No. 3QT62646 in the Brentford County Court 23/10/2013. District Judge Jenkins dismissed the case on the grounds that the parking contract was a commercial matter between the Operator and the landowner, and didn’t create any contractual relationship with motorists who used the land. This decision was followed by ParkingEye v Gardam, Case No.3QT60598 in the High Wycombe County Court 14/11/2013 where costs of £90 were awarded to the Defendant. District Judge Jones concurred with the view in ParkingEye v Sharma that a parking operator has no standing to bring the claim in their own name. I submit that this applies in my case as well because the parking contract - if one is even produced - is a similar business agreement between an agent and landowner, nothing more.

    If UKPC produce a 'witness statement' I contend that there is no proof whatsoever that the alleged signatory has ever seen the relevant contract terms, or, indeed is even an employee of the landowner. I contend, if such a witness statement is submitted instead of the landowner contract itself, that this should be disregarded as unreliable and not proving full BPA compliance nor legal standing.


    2) No genuine pre-estimate of loss.
    The Notice from UKPC alleges that a breach of the terms and conditions of parking have occurred and so the charge levied must be damages that UKPC are seeking in redress. But this car park is free and there is no provision for the purchasing of a ticket or any other means for paying for parking. There was no damage nor obstruction caused so there can be no loss arising from the incident. Given there has been no genuine pre-estimate of loss the charge levied is unenforceable and the charge should be cancelled.

    The Office of Fair Trading has stated to the BPA Ltd that a 'parking charge' is not automatically recoverable simply because it is stated to be a parking charge, as it cannot be used to state a loss where none exists. And the BPA Code of Practice states that a charge for breach must wholly represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss flowing from the parking event, so this charge breaches the code and is unenforceable.


    3) Notice to Keeper not compliant with the PoFA 2012.
    Under the terms of the Protection of Freedoms Act, specifically Schedule 4, paragraphs 8 and 9, UKPC must identify the creditor who is legally entitled to recover parking charges on their Notice to Keeper. They have failed to do so, and so they have no right under the PoFA to reclaim parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle. In a previous ruling, POPLA Assessor Matthew Shaw has stated that the validity of a Notice to Keeper is fundamental to establishing liability for a parking charge. Where a Notice is to be relied upon to establish liability under Paragraph 8 or 9 it must, as with any statutory provision, comply with the Act. As the Notice was not compliant with the Act, it was not properly issued.


    4)The signage was not compliant with the BPA Code of Practice and there was no valid contract formed between the UKPC and the driver
    I submit that this signage failed to comply with the BPA Code of Practice section 18 and appendix B. The signs failed to properly warn/inform the driver of a no-parking area nor the terms and any consequences for breach.

    No entrance sign was seen and as the car park was gridlocked, the driver did not proceed further into the site and, needing a close bay for a disabled passenger, the car was parked in what appeared to be a continuation of a row of bays at the side of the retail building. Only after finding the ticket on the windscreen when about to leave, did the driver further search for signs and saw a small sign hidden behind a Luton van which indicated 'no parking' for the first time to the driver.

    In Mendelssohn v Normand Ltd [1970] 1 QB177 Lord Denning MR at 182 dealt with the question whether a term on a notice board at a car park might have been incorporated into a contract where it was not obvious as the driver came in but was obvious at the end, and where the plaintiff had parked often before. He said:

    “He may have seen the notice, but he had never read it. Such a notice is not imported into the contract unless it is brought home to the party so prominently that he must be taken to have known of it and agreed with it.”

    Any alleged contract would be formed at the entrance to the premises, prior to parking. It is not formed after the vehicle has already been parked, as this is too late.


    5) Unlawful penalty clause - revenue for UKPC
    Since there was no demonstrable loss/damage and yet a breach of contract has been alleged, this 'charge' can only be an unlawful attempt at dressing up a penalty to impersonate a parking ticket, as was found in the case of Excel Parking Services v Hetherington-Jakeman (2008) also OBServices v Thurlow (review, February 2011), in Parking Eye v Smith (Manchester County Court December 2011) and UKCPS v Murphy (April 2012).

    This transparently punitive charge by UKPC is a revenue-raising exercise and is therefore unenforceable in law. UKPC's own website is damning in this regard:

    http://www.ukparkingcontrol.com/faq.html

    From the UKPC website, November 2013:
    ''frequently asked questions:
    How much would it cost us to use your parking management services? Nothing at all! We provide parking management services to our clients free of charge.
    So how do you earn your money? Our revenue is generated from the parking charges issued.

    So in conclusion, this is (as is proven by the Operator's own website) a revenue-raising scheme disguised as a 'parking ticket' - so in fact it is an unenforceable penalty. I request that my appeal is upheld and for POPLA to inform UKPC to cancel the PCN.

    Yours faithfully,

    THE REGISTERED KEEPER
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Please try and keep things on the forum as much as possible OP , this helps everyone as it gives at what stage you are at, it gives others a finish to the thread. We have so many threads like this that people don't update, it's why we keep answering the same questions endlessly .

    And finally it makes it more difficult for us as we are just answering questions away from the forum, that is by the way the reason I switched PMs off on the forum.
    When posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
    We don't need the following to help you.
    Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
    :beer: Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member :beer:
  • Stroma wrote: »
    Please try and keep things on the forum as much as possible OP , this helps everyone as it gives at what stage you are at, it gives others a finish to the thread. We have so many threads like this that people don't update, it's why we keep answering the same questions endlessly .

    And finally it makes it more difficult for us as we are just answering questions away from the forum, that is by the way the reason I switched PMs off on the forum.

    Point taken.
    Sent off appeal and I will feed back with the result on this thread. Once again thanks to all for your help
  • Just received a letter of acknowledgement from popla following an appeal saying that the case will be heard in January 2014 at a set day or soon after. Is this normal procedure? Seems to be a long time!
  • eeeeen wrote: »
    Hi thanks in advance for any advice
    Parked on a retail park on August bank holiday Sunday. It was very busy no spaces and I had a disabled person with me in the car(blue badge holder) All the disabled spots where taken so I parked on the retail park (part of the shop I was using) in an area that did have a sign up saying you can't park here. I thought because it was so busy and a Sunday,it was close to the shop entrance not impeding anything or anyone and to be honest is part of the car park apart from the wall thought it would be ok. Got a ticket that says not parked correctly within the markings of bay or space. Any advice on the appeal letter please.
    Was there a reason stated for not parking there?
  • Scrootum wrote: »
    Was there a reason stated for not parking there?
    Hi
    No. Just wanted to know really do the appeals with popla take a cpl of months to get sorted
  • They can do, but they've seemed to be getting quicker recently. (Probably because their contract is due for renewal next month).
  • bod1467 wrote: »
    They can do, but they've seemed to be getting quicker recently. (Probably because their contract is due for renewal next month).

    Thanks,will just have to be patient then wasn't, sure if that was normal procedure!
  • hi ,
    thought I'd share here, I have won an appeal against a ticket by 'parking eye' on an aldi car partk - I had gone 57 minutes over the allowed hr.
    I argued that they would find it difficult to justify any losses occurred by the owner (ALDI) in Court as this car park is 1/3 empty even in busy times. (Obviously this applies also (possibly) if car park is full and you park outside marked bay without obstruction ;-)
    note also that parking eye were dragging the matter out by not sending a complaint response which is needed to turn to POPLA. I had to put my foot down by turning to BPA to get them to send that in the first place. They had already put up charges to 70£.
    Interesting is that the decision maker at POPLA not only follows my argument of losses not proven, but also says their business model did not convince (they had claimed their expenses for putting up the boards and sending reminders as part of the losses which does not make sense at all).
    So be of good cheer and don't pay them.:rotfl:
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad Forumite
    86K posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I thought I had asked you to stop sharing?!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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