Rental Deposit Dispute - Overseas Landlord

G_M

Jamgo wrote: »

Thanks so much for this - it does answer a lot of questions, but inevitably raises a few too.

1. @G_M -The address given for the landlord on the tenancy agreement was that of the agents. this is normal with an overseas LL. By law (see the Act I quoted) the LL MUST provide a UK address "for the servingof notices". According to your advice, I would therefore serve the notice at that address - is this "care of" the agents or is that unnecessary? You address it to Mr Landlord, and then copy the exact address provided. If you decide to make the agents co-defendants (I advise) send them a seperate letter addressed to them. The fact that in reality they will open both letters is irrelevant. As Guest suggests - send Letters before action to give them a final warning. Given the protracted nature of the communication, 7 or 10 days is plenty.

2. @G_M & @Valhalla: I don't understand what's meant by placing a "charge on the property" - could you explain?
It's a way to get the money from the property (albeit not till it is sold) IF the LL fails to pay when ordered by the court
To clear up the comment about the landlord's finances, I simply meant she hasn't physically got the disputed sum in her possession (as it's being held by the agents)
the LL is legally responsible. The actual whereabouts of the money is irrelevant. If she gave it to her 3-year-old to keep safe in his piggybank, and little Johnny refused to give it back, that would be no defence!
so to pursue her seemed a strange thing to do - you've cleared that particular part up though, so thank you!not strange at all. your contract iswith the LL. She is responsible for your deposit.

3. This one's @Guest101 - the pre-court practice guidance template suggests sending a preliminary letter outlining the proposed action and allowing 28 days for a response. Is there a reason you suggest 10 days only? Given the letter needs to find its way to Australia, I'm wary that this will seem unreasonable.How/when the LL gets the letter is not your problem. You serve at the UK address. OK, forget my 7day suggestion and stick with Guest's 10 days! The LL has been messing about since May!

Thanks again to everyone who took the time to answer.

Benjus- the only reason I suggested a Charge "Ultimately" was because the OP said the LL "doesn't actually have the money to return to us anyway".

I had interpretted that (wrongly) as meaning she was broke/penneyless. In fact the OP meant the deposit was registered &/or held by the agent

princeofpounds

Hi there. I don't have much to add to the great guidance above.

One thing I would say is that you seem to have been under the mistaken impression that agents work for you, or at least with you. They don't. They work for the landlord (well, after their own interests). So expecting them to help you out was a big mistake, and it's exactly why they spun things out.

Wouldn't be surprised if the LL doesn't even know what's going on.

You probably should name the agent as a defendant also. Given they took and still hold the deposit they still fall under the legislation.

http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2013/02/11/who-does-the-this-tenant-sue-for-the-deposit/

Also, can you confirm that your deposit really WAS protected? Have you received the proscribed information and confirmed with the scheme?

Jamgo

Fair comments, we had made the grevious mistake of expecting the agents to act in a fair way and try to resolve the dispute even-handedly. So much smoke and mirrors.

The issue with us being served notice originated with the agent as well. They have no shame.
These people are basically parasites. We live in a great place now, with not an agent in sight. I just wish there was a reliable way for responsible tenants to reliably be united with fair and trustworthy landlords without the need for these exploitative people in between.

G_M

Jamgo wrote: »

Fair comments, we had made the grevious mistake of expecting the agents to act in a fair way and try to resolve the dispute even-handedly. So much smoke and mirrors.

Legally, the agent works for the LL, so must act in the LL's best interests. If that means persuading the tenant not to sue.....

In practice, of course, agents work in their own best interest - but again, persuading the tenant not to sue....

What you can be sure of, though, is that they do NOT work in the tenant's best interests.

Jamgo

All money now returned. They capitulated within 6 hours of receiving the pre-court letters.

Thanks to everyone on here for your advice, I was feeling pretty hopeless at one point!

theartfullodger

Result!!! Well done!!!

Now, ask the agent if they have withheld tax from the landlord when paying rent to landlord or if not does the agent have a copy of the HMRC tax paperwork confirming landlords tax affairs regarding property income are all sorted - see,,...
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/nr-landlords.htm
- and you;d like to see copies so you can be sure they are being truthful...

Might give you some people satisfaction ..

Jamgo

Ooh... the temptation.

At no point was this mentioned previously in all the time we were dealing with these people, so a very interesting piece of info, thanks.

The landlord is on a visa in Australia, but I am guessing (we were never told her address) that her "usual place of abode" is actually over there given the definition on the HMRC pages.

Thanks - I am tempted to follow up, but I'm just glad to have the money back to be honest. Also the agents no longer deal with the landlord any more (the breakdown in relationship between the landlord and the agents is the main reason we had to leave in the first place).

ValHaller

theartfullodger wrote: »

Result!!! Well done!!!

Now, ask the agent if they have withheld tax from the landlord when paying rent to landlord or if not does the agent have a copy of the HMRC tax paperwork confirming landlords tax affairs regarding property income are all sorted - see,,...
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/nr-landlords.htm
- and you;d like to see copies so you can be sure they are being truthful...

Might give you some people satisfaction ..

Couldn't this backfire?

I seem to recall that if a non UK resident Landlord is not sorted on Tax then the Tenant is responsible for deduction at source, which could leave OP with a problem .... Or is it the case that if there is an Agent, this falls on the Agent?

ValHaller

Jamgo wrote: »

All money now returned. They capitulated within 6 hours of receiving the pre-court letters.

Thanks to everyone on here for your advice, I was feeling pretty hopeless at one point!

Well done!!!

Just for the collective knowledgebase, to help others who may come along in similar circumstances, would you mind summarising the points in your letter?

Yorkie1

ValHaller wrote: »

Couldn't this backfire?

I seem to recall that if a non UK resident Landlord is not sorted on Tax then the Tenant is responsible for deduction at source, which could leave OP with a problem .... Or is it the case that if there is an Agent, this falls on the Agent?

Broadly speaking, I think that if the T has been paying the LA or another UK representative of the LL, then the T is not responsible.