Parking LBCCC - merits of making a 'without prejudice offer'

ordinaryJoe

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

Send the letter by webmail, and also by first class post from a post office, and get a (free) certificate of posting.

Thanks ever so much for your help Daisy, I've posted the letter and got a certificate of posting, but please can you give me one good reason why I should also send it via email, thus supplying PE with my email address - which they will probably sell on to all and sundry in an attempt to make even more money out of me!

zzzLazyDaisy

ordinaryJoe wrote: »

Thanks ever so much for your help Daisy, I've posted the letter and got a certificate of posting, but please can you give me one good reason why I should also send it via email, thus supplying PE with my email address - which they will probably sell on to all and sundry in an attempt to make even more money out of me!

You don't have to give them your e-mail address. Just get a gmail or hotmail address for this purpose. I'd suggest something like

ihateparkingscammers @ gmail.com

But I expect that has already been taken

The reason I suggest using their appeal webmail address is simply as a belt and braces approach in case your snail-mail letter gets 'lost in the post'.

But then maybe I have just got too cynical in my old age....

Daisy

ordinaryJoe

So I have today received a letter from ParkingEye, acknowledging receipt of my letter (which provided details of the driver at the time along the lines indicated above), but the reaction was not as predicted in these forums.

The letter says that because I did not provide the driver details within 28 days of the date given, then under Schedule 4 of PFA 2012 I remain responsible for the outstanding amount and that "ParkingEye is prepared to pursue this matter through the County Court if necessary" with the added threat of further legal costs.

Any constructive advice on what to do next would be very much appreciated.

Regards
ordinaryJoe

zzzLazyDaisy

It is okay, they are just trying it on in the hope that you will fold and pay. I had this with a case I was helping with off-line - they then proceeded to attempt to pursue BOTH RK and Driver until they were told where to get off.

Stay there, I'll give you a letter in a moment.

D

ParkingEye Ltd
Legal Department
[Insert Address]

[Insert Date]

[Insert the reference quoted on their letter]

Dear Sir

PCN Number xxxxx

Vehicle Registration Number [insert reg number]

I refer to your letter of [date].

Your letter acknowledges receipt of my letter of [date] identifying the driver and giving an address for service, but goes on to advise me that you still intend to pursue me, as the Registered Keeper. Put simply, it is not open to you to pick and choose against whom to enforce this charge. You are bound by the law of the land, in the same way as any other private parking company. Since you know who the driver is and where that person lives, that is the person who you must pursue. This matter is no longer anything to do with me, as the Registered Keeper.

I am sure that you are very well aware of the relevant legal provisions under which your company operates. Nevertheless, I refer you to The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, specifically Sched 4, Para 5, (also BPA CoP Appendix C). You will see that the legislation provides that in order to pursue the Registered Keeper, your company must be unable to take steps to enforce against the driver because it does not know the name of the driver and a current address for service.

I also refer you to the flow chart at BPA Code of Practice Appendix E, which explains in simple terms the procedure that you must follow once the Registered Keeper has disclosed the drivers details (please see the blue part on the top right of the flow chart).

You will see that, nowhere in the legislation, or the supplementary advice provided by the BPA, does it state that the Registered Keeper must provide the driver's details within the arbitrary time limit of 28 days which you are seeking to impose.

As you acknowledge in your letter, I have already provided you with the name of the driver together with the driver's current address for service. This means that I have discharged my obligations under POFA 2012 and, as legal proceedings had not yet been started at that date, you no longer have any legal grounds to pursue legal action against me, as the Registered Keeper.

I suggest that you now do what is required of you, and serve a Notice to Driver on the driver of the vehicle on the day in question.


Yours etc

PRINT NAME

cc Steve.C@britishparking.co.uk; elizabeth.symons@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

---

Letter to Steve Clark, BPA

FORMAL COMPLAINT AGAINST BPA MEMBER PARKINGEYE LTD

Dear Mr Clark

I wish to make a formal complaint about ParkingEye Ltd in respect of its clear breach of POFA 2012 schedule 4, para 5, and the guidance set out in the BPA Code of Practice.

Specifically, by a letter dated [xxxx] (copy enclosed) your member stated an express written intention to continue to pursue me as the Registered Keeper, notwithstanding that I have already provided the details of the driver on the day in question, and that no legal proceedings have yet begun in this case.

As I am sure you are aware, the arbitrary time limit of 28 days for disclosing driver details which your member is seeking to impose is does not feature anywhere in the legislation nor the BPA code of conduct. I can only assume that this is a cynical and deliberate ploy to mislead the recipient as to the legal provisions with a view to unlawfully eliciting payment from the Registered Keeper.

I should be obliged if you would investigate this complaint as a matter of urgency, as I am in receipt of a Letter Before Action from this company and it would appear that legal proceedings are imminent.

Yours etc

cc DVLA

---

Letter to DVLA

Please find attached a letter to Mr S Clark of the BPA, with enclosure, the contents of which are self explanatory.

I trust that you will take appropriate action against ParkingEye Ltd

Yours etc

Coupon-mad

ordinaryJoe wrote: »

So I have today received a letter from ParkingEye, acknowledging receipt of my letter (which provided details of the driver at the time along the lines indicated above), but the reaction was not as predicted in these forums.

The letter says that because I did not provide the driver details within 28 days of the date given, then under Schedule 4 of PFA 2012 I remain responsible for the outstanding amount and that "ParkingEye is prepared to pursue this matter through the County Court if necessary" with the added threat of further legal costs.

Any constructive advice on what to do next would be very much appreciated.

Regards
ordinaryJoe

In fact that WAS as predicted on these forums if you read similar threads! We have seen this before and if you had read a few other threads who are at your stage and with the same issues, you'd have seen this knock-back happens all the time. Think of this as a game of tennis!

zzzLazyDaisy will show you another letter to send. What we have said is correct in law, and they are indeed trying it on (which we have seen before). You would do well to read other similar threads regularly; if you can't find them by searching 'LBCCC' (which will give lots of thread results) you can find the threads by searching back through some of Daisy's older posts, as this has been covered a lot. Loads of people have given the driver's details at this stage and then played a bit of letter-tennis with PE thereafter, to get them to leave the rk alone!

ordinaryJoe

Hi Daisy

I followed up your post with a PM to you, just to clarify how to deal with this letter, but you haven't responded (you always respond impressively quickly to public forum posts) so I wondered whether you would prefer me to post my questions in public?

ordinaryJoe

zzzLazyDaisy

Hmmm... actually I did respond. I'll just go and see what's happened. D

Edit - okay, check your inbox.

Daisy

ordinaryJoe

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

cc [EMAIL="Steve.C@britishparking.co.uk"]Steve.C@britishparking.co.uk[/EMAIL]; [EMAIL="elizabeth.symonds@dvla.gsi.gov.uk"]elizabeth.symonds@dvla.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL]

Hi Daisy
Have you got an alternative email address for DVLA - the one you gave above comes back with a "No such recipient" message.

Thanks again for all your help.
Joe

zzzLazyDaisy

Interesting, it was certainly working a couple of days ago. Perhaps she is getting fed up with being bombarded by complaints.

I don't have another e-address, hopefully one of the regulars will have an alternative (but only accept this info from a regular, there are spies on the forum!).

D

Coupon-mad

[EMAIL="david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk"]david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL]


He's a Manager who might take it seriously...maybe...