MSE News: eBay sellers beware - its fees now eat into postage costs

MillieMoodle

Sorry but I meant to say in the vicious circle that the buyers drive the sellers which drives the buyers...

Also, on top of the FVF - you do have an insertion fee if you start out higher than 99p.

soolin

milliemoodle , if I can pick out some points from your post:

My thoughts on ebay is that they are charging the wrong party. Sellers are not profiting (at least not me or many small time sellers trying to keep their costs down to attract a buyer). It is the shipping companies profiting from the postage fees - so why not fee them? They're getting business from e-bay, we're driving business to them - why are they not being taxed? It is an expense to the seller and in American tax terms, you don't get taxed for items necessary to your business and not your means of business (as shipping companies are doing).

eBay can only charge sellers fees, I'm not sure exactly how eBay can charge any third party, that does not use their site like Royal Mail ?

Your American analogy doesn't work as they have paid FVFs on postage for years.

The costs are the same whether you add post and packing to your item cost or charge it separately. With so many free listing weekends and entire weeks private sellers need never pay insertion fees at all.

I'm also concerned that as a new seller you are doing collection only items, you are aware of the PayPal on collection scam aren't you?

There is no obligation to go down the inclusive postage route, personally I think it does attract buyers in many categories, but not everyone agrees.

As for alternative venues, for general second hand clearing out the shed items eBay is probably best. Yu could look at Facebook selling or Gumtree as well though, for newer items, or games, DVds etc Amazon is worth a look. however their fees are higher than eBay and you pay fees on the postage element also.

lovinituk

MillieMoodle wrote: »

Also, I am curious if those with more experience have located a better venue for selling.

To put it simply, there aren't any like ebay that will get you anywhere near the same audience. If you're not happy paying the fees then Gumtree and Facebook local selling groups are by far your next best bet.

MillieMoodle wrote: »

Preloved is good but doesn't really promote that fully national kind of purchase concept like e-bay (or international if that's your thing).

Don't Preloved charge the buyer some sort of fee to be able to contact sellers?!

MillieMoodle wrote: »

My thoughts on ebay is that they are charging the wrong party. Sellers are not profiting (at least not me or many small time sellers trying to keep their costs down to attract a buyer).

As soolin says, how on earth can ebay charge a company that they don't even have a contract with?! The contract is between you and ebay for using their services. If you can't afford to or don't want to pay ebays fees then quite simply, don't use them! ebay has changed and won't change back as there are far more sellers who will continue to use it, despite the fees, than there are sellers who can't afford the fees.

MillieMoodle wrote: »

So questions to those in the know...what are the going sites with traffic and if this logic of ebay is sound (to offer free postage by bundling it up in your starting bid) how does this work because my basic maths is not calculating it and it sounds like a con to get you to do it their way and after a few twists and turns, you'll end up in the same place anyway (same fees and the number of buyers interested in free postage gained while losing those who are savy enough to know it isn't really a saving).

It no longer really makes any difference if you include postage in the price of the item or if you charge it separately - your fees will end up the same.

MillieMoodle

ok - I guess I didn't expect a rant back at me necessarily. I thought we were all mostly on the same page in terms of being upset with the e-bay structure. I was simply saying that e-bay promotes Royal Mail, Myhermes, etc. They list them on the site - so yes, no contract but as I know MyHermes can connect to e-bay, it would seem there might be some options like a PPC that each time someone selects Royal Mail or whatever, sells, charges that a fee could go back to the shippers - otherwise they don't get promoted as a shipper of choice on e-bay. There are other options other than a direct contract between them and believe me, these guys know how to negotiate a term with companies! I've worked in places where Amazon calls you to be a part of their marketplace - don't tell me that e-bay cannot call the shipping companies and say we want you to be our choice in shipping but it will cost you. And as I said, it is the shipping companies making the profit here, not the sellers. I may not be an experienced seller but I do know how the world works and you, as a seller, are an easy target so they target you. That's all it is. So get angry with me for pointing out that E-bay is penalising the wrong end of the stick but it's true...period. And the American thing is an accurate analogy - if you had to buy a uniform for work - do you take it off your taxes? yes! I am not an experienced tax person but many companies with expenses don't pay taxes on them. Likewise, shipping something is an expense of your business. MyHermes makes a profit from you shipping with them - you get penalised. Sorry for pointing out the obvious and nice of you to say I should go elsewhere when there are lots of sellers happy to stay with them. This is about the small time people trying to break in and the system crushing them down - so I speak out about it because it is wrong. I sought help about this and feel like I've been read the riot act by the big, happy sellers.

MillieMoodle

I don't know the paypal collection scam but with doors you kinda have to pick up only - too large to ship.

RFW

MillieMoodle wrote: »

ok - I guess I didn't expect a rant back at me necessarily. I thought we were all mostly on the same page in terms of being upset with the e-bay structure. I was simply saying that e-bay promotes Royal Mail, Myhermes, etc. They list them on the site - so yes, no contract but as I know MyHermes can connect to e-bay, it would seem there might be some options like a PPC that each time someone selects Royal Mail or whatever, sells, charges that a fee could go back to the shippers - otherwise they don't get promoted as a shipper of choice on e-bay.

I'd be surprised if Ebay didn't get a cut of the postage fee from any of the post companies they sell postage for. I'd guess they were on at least 5% from Royal Mail.
A lot of the shipping companies are working on peanuts in profit for small single item sellers. Their profits are on big clients.

As has been said on this thread the postage fees aren't exclusive to Ebay, they are the same and higher on Amazon.

I'm not sure what the point is on the American tax system, as far as I know it varies between states and really isn't relevant. Referring to Ebay and taxes seems to be a common misconception that Ebay are some kind of public body who should pander to the public. They go where the money is, if this stops a few small sellers they won't be bothered in the slightest.

soolin

MillieMoodle wrote: »

ok - I guess I didn't expect a rant back at me necessarily. I thought we were all mostly on the same page in terms of being upset with the e-bay structure. I was simply saying that e-bay promotes Royal Mail, Myhermes, etc. They list them on the site - so yes, no contract but as I know MyHermes can connect to e-bay, it would seem there might be some options like a PPC that each time someone selects Royal Mail or whatever, sells, charges that a fee could go back to the shippers - otherwise they don't get promoted as a shipper of choice on e-bay. There are other options other than a direct contract between them and believe me, these guys know how to negotiate a term with companies! I've worked in places where Amazon calls you to be a part of their marketplace - don't tell me that e-bay cannot call the shipping companies and say we want you to be our choice in shipping but it will cost you. And as I said, it is the shipping companies making the profit here, not the sellers. I may not be an experienced seller but I do know how the world works and you, as a seller, are an easy target so they target you. That's all it is. So get angry with me for pointing out that E-bay is penalising the wrong end of the stick but it's true...period. And the American thing is an accurate analogy - if you had to buy a uniform for work - do you take it off your taxes? yes! I am not an experienced tax person but many companies with expenses don't pay taxes on them. Likewise, shipping something is an expense of your business. MyHermes makes a profit from you shipping with them - you get penalised. Sorry for pointing out the obvious and nice of you to say I should go elsewhere when there are lots of sellers happy to stay with them. This is about the small time people trying to break in and the system crushing them down - so I speak out about it because it is wrong. I sought help about this and feel like I've been read the riot act by the big, happy sellers.

No one is trying to argue with you and we are all in the same boat, but you are under a misaprehension if you believe all postage is done via ebay. So basically if you wanted ebay to charge companies how would it work for those of us using couriers etc that have no 'deal' with ebay? Also, do you not believe that if couriers were charged a FVF on postage supplied to ebay sellers that that cost would not be passed on to us?

I do print some of my postage via ebay, but I use myHermes which I book and pay for direct- not through ebay and I also send a great deal fo my items using pre purchased postage stamps. How would ebay take a cut of that?

Fees are high on ebay, however, putting extra layers of admin in to work out which couriers we were all using to somehow present them with a bill would cost a fortune.

As for suggesting you used other sites- that was a direct response to your asking which other sites we could suggest. I do not think you can take offence if you ask a question and have it answered.

As for tax on business- I thought you said you were a private individual and not selling as a business? In which case the analogy does not work as you can't have a tax break if you don't pay tax. However, rest assured that on my business account the costs of postage, and ebay/paypal fees are used as costs to offset against my tax payable on profit. So yes, I do have the same tax break as companies do.

MillieMoodle

no - i know I asked where to go...I think it was just a tone that I felt in someone saying, if you don't like it - go somewhere else. No, I am not a business but I guess I was just saying that if you are conducting business, you are generally not taxed (or in the case of e-bay, charged a fee) when it is a necessary course of business and not a means of you making profit. So the analogy is if i were a business, I'd have things that were profit making and some that were expenses. Even if we look at it from an employee perspective, if i have to buy a uniform for work - I don't want taxed on it. Likewise, if I am selling small amounts and I barely pull anything in, then why am I paying a fee for an expense I am taking on and e-bay does nothing for! They promote you should sell things for 99p, then say offer free shipping - I am pretty sure from all the words and logic it appears that they encourage you to be very helpful to buyers, which lines their pocket quite nicely. You, if you are a tiny seller like me, can't do it. If i sell something for 99p, pay 16p FVF, pay 40p for the amount I had for postage for said item and pay a fee to paypal - why do it? I've spent too much time and money on it and e-bay are the ones benefiting, certainly not me who originally purchased the item, listed it, paid for packaging (and generally I've short-changed myself on this because I didn't know about this ebay fee), spent time packing it and taking it to be sent. I'd like to set up an online business, had hoped that e-bay might be a good platform to begin that but seeing this, I can't imagine how I would get started! Sorry it doesn't make much sense to me and yes, ebay are the new monopoly but I guess i am idealist and think that when something is wrong, it is wrong. People should stand together and make it better. Telling someone if they're not happy, there are plenty who are is of course logical but I suspect that eventually this will encroach on others too! Anyway, I am getting off my soap box now.

Good luck.

RFW

MillieMoodle wrote: »

They promote you should sell things for 99p, then say offer free shipping - I am pretty sure from all the words and logic it appears that they encourage you to be very helpful to buyers, which lines their pocket quite nicely. You, if you are a tiny seller like me, can't do it. If i sell something for 99p, pay 16p FVF, pay 40p for the amount I had for postage for said item and pay a fee to paypal - why do it?

They actually promote listings that start at 99p not ones that sell for 99p. They actually do their best to discourage them with their charges. I'm surprised anyone would bother listing if they thought they'd sell for 99p. Might as well go to the tip or charity shop.
They try and keep the 99p private sellers on so they buy stuff and generate the odd interesting auctions. The bulk of Ebay's profits come from the large sellers. I've no idea on the stats but I'd guess that 500,000 private sellers generate the same profit as Argos.

MillieMoodle

oh - one other thing - preloved is simply a 5 pound fee per year if you want to contact sellers (before 10 days). If you don't pay the fee, you can still contact them but won't have first dibs to those who pay the fee. Pretty small change to contact a seller and the seller don't pay any fees.