CP Plus charge notice - staff parking in hospital

pocahontas365

HI,

I have scanned these forums and cant find anything similiar to my situation and wondered whether i have a leg to stand on when it comes to ignoring or appealing and would appreciate any feedback.

I work for the NHS Hertfordshire and all our hospitals have different permits. However i visited Watford hospital for the day and they use CP Plus (didnt realise this till later). I parked in staff car park with my usual permit and could see others permits were different to mine. I got a ticket for not displaying valid permit which i binned. At our other sites everyone bins them and you never hear any more about it. However a few days ago i got my first letter sent to my home address now asking for £80.

I panicked and rang my colleague who works over there and she advised me that everyone ignores them too but i dot feel comfortable as this came to my home. The office manager sent me links to these forums and told me to ignore it and no one she knows has been taken to court by CP Plus.

What is the best way to proceed and difficult as dont have original ticket. I now have 28 days.

(Annoyingly i got one for a private car park from them a week ago which i paid and in hindsight shouldnt have as they left no note on my windscreen and never saw a sign but they filmed me going in the rd and leaving. Went back to check and sign outside car park.)

Many thanks.

Coupon-mad

Oh my word, you've just paid one in error - so never make the same mistake again! You only had to come here and realise that ANPR fake PCNs are the same scam as windscreen ones, no different and certainly NOT to be paid! Even if they had left 10 notes on your windscreen or taken 100 pics on the ANPR camera, you NEVER pay these!

Sounds like your local hospitals have two types of private tickets:

- ones from random non-AOS club members (certainly ignore those - NEVER give a non-AOS member your details)

- and ones from 'AOS member' PPCs like CP Plus who can get your address (once you have the first letter, appeal and win at POPLA; England/Wales only).

Of course most of these firms can usually write to the registered keeper; it's well known that AOS 'club members' can buy your data from the DVLA for £2.50 a pop:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2064885/DVLA-sells-data-2-50-pretty-dodgy-characters-says-MP.html

Buying your data from the DVLA (only AOS members have this privilege) doesn't suddenly make the fake PCN more enforceable and nor does the fact they 'have signs up at or in the car park'. But 'ignore it' is no longer the best advice for an AOS member PPC because some of them are trying Small Claims this year and because they can be beaten at their own expense, using a well-worded POPLA stage appeal.

Here's the usual advice from here and on pepipoo with info about how to word an appeal without naming the driver, as such:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62827554#Comment_62827554

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=82727&st=0&gopid=862300&

I wish you'd found forum advice on this scam sooner but at least learn how to beat this one and tell your colleagues in that hospital with CP Plus that 'ignore' is ONLY the right advice in Scotland now, or in car parks where the PPC or Security Group is not a member of the AOS scheme with the BPA as listed here:

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Approved-Operators

At your other local Hospital sites I am guessing the tickets are issued by Security employees and not by an AOS member so if that's the case then people are right to ignore them of course and NEVER pass on your details, because with such non-member firms it can't go any further, no letters, nothing unless a hapless driver hands their details to the firm on a plate by being deluded into 'appealing' to a non-AOS member.

But a CP Plus piece of rubbish is one from an AOS member so needs to be appealed to get it cancelled. Let us know if you have any questions after reading those links about appealing to the AOS member PPC and complaining to the landowner/occupier (Hospital Management or NHS Trust). They can't expect staff to be sent to work at various sites and not allow permits to be transferable/allowable for staff under those circumstances; it's unreasonable and an unfair contract term that you should take up with your Union rep, I suggest.

Read up on other threads to learn about the POPLA stage as well; you will need it if the Hospital don't cancel this fake PCN. And you will not win if you send a 'normal' mitigating circumstances appeal to POPLA - so don't do it without reading up on it here and asking more when you get your CP Plus rejection letter and a POPLA code.

Half_way

As above, but with this

(Annoyingly i got one for a private car park from them a week ago which i paid and in hindsight shouldnt have as they left no note on my windscreen and never saw a sign but they filmed me going in the rd and leaving. Went back to check and sign outside car park.)

If the above is true then so be it, although you should really up check on everything/ anything you spend cash/ money on before splashing out the cash.
Also are you 100% sure that the timed cameras/parking attendants watch is/are 100%accurate

pocahontas365

Many thanks for the response and great detail.

My husband is worried about me not paying the £80 and that the fee I might end up paying if I don't win could be a lot more, is this generally the case?

So in appealing I write in third person but not sure exactly what to put in regarding my permit situation so any advice would be great. Unfortunately NHS is to the greatest employer and say nothing they can do. The other company who give out the tickets we all bin are called Vinci and they are mean too and don't care about excuses. Annoyingly we pay monthly for parking permits! But small print says it doesn't guarantee you a space, cheeky.

Coupon-mad

pocahontas365 wrote: »

Many thanks for the response and great detail.

My husband is worried about me not paying the £80 and that the fee I might end up paying if I don't win could be a lot more, is this generally the case?

NEVER the case when people appeal and then win at POPLA. We have 100% success against all PPCs at POPLA in cases where we have advised newbies, since Easter!

Even if people make the mistake of ignoring an AOS member who happen to like small claims court (e.g. Parking Eye) then the amount they can claim is limited under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, to the amount of the parking charge (plus a small court fee/possibly expenses, maybe an extra £50 or £75 is typical) if the person then loses in small claims. It's not a criminal court and they can't get legal fees, can't just get a CCJ (a person simply has to pay if they lose and there is no effect on credit records) and PPCs very often lose, don't show up or give up and don't pay the hearing fee.

Most PPCs don't do small claims at all and I haven't heard of a recent one from CP Plus - but that is NOT a reason not to kill this with a nice robust POPLA appeal, it's good practice for you and good to show your colleagues in the end!

pocahontas365 wrote: »

So in appealing I write in third person but not sure exactly what to put in regarding my permit situation so any advice would be great. Unfortunately NHS is to the greatest employer and say nothing they can do.

You can & should talk about the permit but say 'the driver is an employee at a local hospital, was working and has paid-for NHS parking permit (copy attached), so there was no loss caused whatsoever to the principal (the NHS Trust)... blah/blah you are merely an agent with no ownership of the land and your charge is not proportionate to any loss caused at all and is an unenforceable penalty...and your signage is pants and so is your fake PCN - I will point out your non-compliance at POPLA stage because you should know the POFA and BPA rules...blah/blah...' (NOT 'here's a copy of my permit', not 'I parked').

pocahontas365 wrote: »

The other company who give out the tickets we all bin are called Vinci and they are mean too and don't care about excuses. Annoyingly we pay monthly for parking permits! But small print says it doesn't guarantee you a space, cheeky.

Hmmm...and you'll have noticed from my link to the AOS members that Vinci are an AOS member (quite a big firm in fact) and should NOT be ignored either! They too can be beaten at POPLA stage.

And if the NHS don't care, are the Unions toothless? This clearly is an unfair consumer contract if you pay for a parking permit and then get sent to a different hospital (still in the region) and are somehow penalised for 'having the wrong permit!'. The Union should be fighting your corner (and others) on this point.

pocahontas365

Dear Coupon Mad, thanks sooo much for your support. Interesting about Vinci as no one has had a follow up letter from them and i have been here nearly 4 yrs. Hence my shock when getting one from CP Plus.

2 more quick questions if i may:
Firstly should i email them as then know it was sent or snail mail?
secondly, when talking about the permit do i need to mention anything with regard to it not being the correct one for that hospital site?

Im not with the union as they dont seem very helpful.

thanks for your time as i too am a busy mum and today is back to school day

Coupon-mad

I was back to school yesterday as I also work in my youngest child's school and it was INSET day!

Anyway, yes email it if the ticket gives you that option and make sure you get an acknowledgement.

And no you should make no admissions about the driver's permit, do not do their 'job'(in the loosest sense!) for them! You should enclose a copy of the driver's permit of course, with your name blanked out if it has a name (and no doubt they'll say it's the wrong type of permit). But it doesn't matter what CP Plus say because you will win at POPLA on other grounds of contract law, as you will see when you read some current new threads talking about POPLA appeals wording.

The Vinci thing probably means that Vinci have sold the Security Dept at the Hospitals some template 'parking tickets' - so there's perhaps no-one there who bothers to upload the details to Vinci. Who knows, who cares, anyway because the time to appeal is when you get the first letter in the post to your home address. If Vinci can't be bothered then your colleagues are doing the right thing UNTIL such time as one of them does ever get a letter. Then they should do what you are doing now.

pocahontas365

Thanks again coupon-mad!

I will write an email to them tonight and keep it brief asking for popla code.

What is the best way for me to keep in touch with you regarding this and letting you know if I need further help with popla? To message you privately or to add to this original posting of mine.

Cheers

pocahontas365

Hi,

last important question ....

Just about to upload a photo of my permit to include in my letter to CP Plus,

problem is although i work for a certain county NHS trust, my permit is issued by Vinci and has their name on it and shows that it is the north and East part of the county it covers, whereas the hospital where i got their ticket was in the west.

Do i still include it? or isnt this evidence against my case?

any further advice much appreciated as want to sort my appeal letter.

thanks for your time folks.

kiss_me_now9

I would suggest alongside the fantastic advice you've received above that you contact someone at the hospital - if you're a member of the unions they can take it further up and note it in official meetings that staff members are being conned for parking legitimately!

pocahontas365

thanks Kiss-Me-Now,

I am not a union member and doubt they are uber helpful. Work themselves shrug their shoulders and advised i just ignore the letter.

With regard to incl copy of permit,should i do so even if its issued by Vinci and not CP Plus, and shows its issued for yes that county NHS but a different area to that where i got PCN?

thanks for the input, really appreciated