ParkingEye charge at The Range

chillie24

I have received a parking charge for £100 (£60 if I pay within 14 days) for parking at The Range car park for 2 hours 22 minutes.

I parked there in the evening (store was closed) while I went to the cinema over the road. I didn't realise there was a limit as I've previously used this car park when it was Tesco, and there were no restrictions then.

I've read some of the other threads, MSE guide on parking charges but I'm still confused as to what I should do... should I appeal? if so, on what grounds? or should I ignore it?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Stroma

The store was closed, there is no loss to anyone! If they didn't want anyone parking there after hours why not a barrier ? On the parking incident did the notice to keeper arrive within 14 days ? Is this England or Wales ?

Anyway send an appeal to parking eye along the lines of, didn't see any signs in the car park, the amount claimed doesn't reflect the loss to them as the store was closed etc

Basically anything in mitigation, when they reject that they must give a popla code providing you are in the area, if you or the car live in Scotland or NI come back for further advice

trisontana

Was this at St. Helens? If so, then appears that the land owner (Tesco) have given PE their marching orders, and have told them to remove all their equipment. :-

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=82942&hl=

Coupon-mad

chillie24 wrote: »

I have received a parking charge for £100 (£60 if I pay within 14 days) for parking at The Range car park for 2 hours 22 minutes.

I parked there in the evening (store was closed) while I went to the cinema over the road. I didn't realise there was a limit as I've previously used this car park when it was Tesco, and there were no restrictions then.

I've read some of the other threads, MSE guide on parking charges but I'm still confused as to what I should do... should I appeal? if so, on what grounds? or should I ignore it?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Same advice as usual:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=82727&st=0&gopid=862300&

Read some threads about POPLA as well. Forget the outdated half-baked 'guide' and MSE articles; stick to the forum current threads on the first few pages right here.

chillie24

trisontana wrote: »

Was this at St. Helens? If so, then appears that the land owner (Tesco) have given PE their marching orders, and have told them to remove all their equipment. :-

yes it was! that's great news but I doubt it will have any implications for me... I will never shop or park there again!

Stroma wrote: »

The store was closed, there is no loss to anyone! If they didn't want anyone parking there after hours why not a barrier ? On the parking incident did the notice to keeper arrive within 14 days ? Is this England or Wales ?

Anyway send an appeal to parking eye along the lines of, didn't see any signs in the car park, the amount claimed doesn't reflect the loss to them as the store was closed etc

Basically anything in mitigation, when they reject that they must give a code providing you are in the area, if you or the car live in Scotland or NI come back for further advice

Thanks... yes the notice arrived within 14 days.

chillie24

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Same advice as usual:

Read some threads about POPLA as well. Forget the outdated half-baked 'guide' and MSE articles; stick to the forum current threads on the first few pages right here.

I've been reading multiple threads and I'm still confused... the advice is completely mixed, some say just ignore while others recommend appealing by sending a letter. Whereas others say send a letter but don't say it is an "appeal" or admit that it was you who was driving the car.

I am not legally minded at all and something like this will play on my mind (which is what the parking companies want I know), so I'd rather not be in a situation where I receive demanding letters or letters that are full of legal jargon! But I also don't want to have to pay a £60 fine that I think is unfair.

Coupon-mad

Here's page one of the forum. These are the threads that matter, the ones to read:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163

Show me a new case in England/Wales, where we are telling someone to 'ignore'?

You won't find one, not with a new ticket where the appeal deadline is still in play like your own case. Simply read some current threads there on page one and copy the appeal wording they used. Or use an example as in the link I already gave you above.

If still unsure please do post your draft appeal here first, make sure you do not imply who was driving (throughout the challenge, talk about 'the driver' not 'me/I'). We can help you if you just read some current threads which will enable you to be able to cobble together a nice draft appeal in your own words.

chillie24

I've decided to appeal and would really appreciate any advice on my appeal letter.... it goes something like this....

To Whom It May Concern:

I am the Registered Keeper of the vehicle related to the parking charge notice number xxx received on xxst August 2013.

I have researched the matter, taken legal advice and would like to point out the following as my appeal against said charge:

CONTRACT WITH THE LANDOWNER - NOT COMPLIANT WITH THE BPA CODE OF PRACTICE AND/OR NO LEGAL STATUS TO OFFER PARKING OR ENFORCE CHARGES

The operator does not appear to own this car park and are assumed to be merely agents for the owner or legal occupier. In their Notice the operator has not provided me with any evidence that it is lawfully entitled to demand money from a driver or keeper, since they do not own nor have any interest or assignment of title of the land in question.

I require The operator to provides a full copy of the actual contemporaneous, signed & dated contract with the landowner.

I do not believe that the Operator has the necessary legal capacity to enter into a contract with a driver of a vehicle parking in the car park, or indeed the legal standing to allege a breach of contract. I refer the Adjudicator to the recent Appeal Court decision in the case of Vehicle Control Services (VCS) v HMRC ( EWCA Civ 186 [2013]): The principal issue in this case was to determine the actual nature of Private Parking Charges. It was stated that: "If those charges are consideration for a supply of goods or services, they will be subject to VAT. If, on the other hand, they are damages they will not be." The ruling of the Court was that "I would hold, therefore, that the monies that VCS collected from motorists by enforcement of parking charges were not consideration moving from the landowner in return for the supply of parking services." In other words, they are not, as the Operator asserts, a contractual term. If they were a contractual term, the Operator would have to provide a VAT invoice, to provide a means of payment at the point of supply, and to account to HMRC for the VAT element of the charge. The Appellant asserts that these requirements have not been met. It must therefore be concluded that the Operator's charges are in fact damages, or penalties, for which the Operator must demonstrate his actual, or pre-estimated, losses, as set out above.

NO BREACH OF CONTRACT AND NO GENUINE PRE-ESTIMATE OF LOSS

There was no parking charge levied, the car park is “free” for 2 hours. On the date of the claimed loss the store was closed. There can have been no loss arising from this incident. Neither can Parking Eye lawfully include their operational day-to-day running costs in enforcing parking restrictions at the site (for example, by erecting signage and employing administration staff) in any 'loss' claimed. This does not represent a loss resulting from a breach of the alleged parking contract. In other words, were no breach to have occurred, the cost of parking enforcement would still have been the same. This has been quoted by PoPLA itself in adjucation.

I contend there can be no loss shown whatsoever; no pre-estimate (prior to starting to 'charge for breaches' at this site) has been prepared or considered in advance.

UNLAWFUL PENALTY CHARGE

Since there was no demonstrable loss/damage and yet a breach of contract has been alleged for a free car park, it can only remain a fact that this 'charge' is an attempt at extorting an unlawful charge to impersonate a parking ticket. This is similar to the decisions in several County Court cases such as Excel Parking Services v Hetherington-Jakeman (2008), also OBServices v Thurlow (review, February 2011), Parking Eye v Smith (Manchester County Court December 2011) and UKCPS v Murphy (April 2012) .

On the basis of all the points I have raised, this 'charge' fails to meet the standards set out in paragraph 19 of the BPA CoP and also fails to comply with basic contract law.

Yours sincerely,


.... any suggestions??

Coupon-mad

[STRIKE]''I contend there can be no loss shown whatsoever; no pre-estimate (prior to
starting to 'charge for breaches' at this site) has been prepared or considered
in advance.''[/STRIKE]

The above was on one of my original draft POPLA appeals over 6 months ago and it has been criticised as it's not particularly clear, so I would not even use that sentence.

Also get rid of stuff about VAT because POPLA knocked that back in another decision the other month, saying they can't comment on whether a charge attracts VAT or not. So you are wasting your breath about VAT in the first challenge to the PPC as well as later at POPLA.

And I think the fact that PE are (it seems) no longer agents there is relevant; I think you should say you believe that to be the case. So there is no cause for an agent to pursue this on behalf of a principal (Tesco) which owns the car-park and has dispensed with their spurious 'service' in the car park. Ask them how they justify chasing a profit for themselves when you understand they are not even agents on that site now, no longer have the backing of the principal, the landowner.

Bear in mind this is only your first challenge to the scammers so doesn't even have to be that long as long as you make some points of appeal.

See here for when this gets to POPLA stage as there's more to include then, in order to win. But don't get too bogged down now, at the first appeal stage:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62180281#Comment_62180281

HTH

chillie24

thanks again coupon-mad!

I've updated my draft and I'm going to post it tomorrow... get this ball rolling!

would people advise sending things recorded delivery or just via usual post?

Umkomaas

chillie24 wrote: »

thanks again coupon-mad!

I've updated my draft and I'm going to post it tomorrow... get this ball rolling!

would people advise sending things recorded delivery or just via usual post?

Up to you, but you can get free 'proof of posting' from your local Post Office when posting the letter, which will cover what you're looking for, I think.