UKCPS claim form recieved

SamRose

Hi guys,

I haven't had chance to read all the info you advised as I've been away with the children this weekend so apologies if I am asking something that is covered but I have seen the wording from the place where we parked and the wording states 'Parking vehicles and leaving/walking off site will result in the issue of a parking charge notice'. I just wondered what this means? we went to the cinema that stands on the same land as the car park, therefore did we leave the site? I would argue that we did not and we remained on site the whole time the car did. Any thoughts on this please?

S x

Umkomaas

SamRose wrote: »

Hi guys,

I haven't had chance to read all the info you advised as I've been away with the children this weekend so apologies if I am asking something that is covered but I have seen the wording from the place where we parked and the wording states 'Parking vehicles and leaving/walking off site will result in the issue of a parking charge notice'. I just wondered what this means? we went to the cinema that stands on the same land as the car park, therefore did we leave the site? I would argue that we did not and we remained on site the whole time the car did. Any thoughts on this please?

S x

If a parking [STRIKE]chimp[/STRIKE] warden saw you 'leaving' the site he has a duty to mitigate any losses on behalf of the landowner.

As in 'ahem, excuse me madam, sorry to interrupt your day/evening, but do you realise that if you are leaving the car park this will contravene our (made up to catch you out and swell our coffers) rules and I'll be obliged to issue with a parking [STRIKE]fine[/STRIKE] ticket - have a good day '

At which point you'd be within your rights to tell him to FRO :rotfl:

Have a read of this court transcript which covers a case similar to your own situation; as well as being a good read, and, if you're feeling a little low will, hopefully cheer you up a bit:

http://notomob.co.uk/discussions/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2793.0;attach=2873

SamRose

Thank you, I have read the Court transcript and just need to use the wording in my defence (I think). I haven't got any evidence that we actually went to the cinema that night as I must have paid cash (sod's law, I usually use my card for everything!) do you think this will matter? As part of my argument will be that I never left the site.

Thanks x

Umkomaas

I think it more incumbent on the PPC to prove you left the site than the other way around. Just tell the truth - you went to the cinema which, as far as you are concerned, is part of that site (perhaps you could get a statement from the cinema confirming that they are indeed part of the site and serviced by that car park?).

Keep in touch.

Coupon-mad

SamRose wrote: »

Thank you, I have read the Court transcript and just need to use the wording in my defence (I think). I haven't got any evidence that we actually went to the cinema that night as I must have paid cash (sod's law, I usually use my card for everything!) do you think this will matter? As part of my argument will be that I never left the site.

Thanks x

Oh dear, don't rush this! :eek: I thought you said the ticket was for 'parked outside marked bay' anyway? Not 'leaving the site'?

You are right to say you never left the site, if you did not (check with the Retail Park Managers by phone or email, as to whether the cinema is part of the overall site) but there is MUCH more to a defence than that. So please do read the links I gave you in my first and second replies above (pay most attention to the one that I said was my 'usual reply' about what to include in a defence, with information & other threads) and follow the linked threads that flow from it.

Have you acknowledged the claim and got the time extended a bit to 28 days instead now? If so you need to sit down and read those links so you know what else goes into a defence.

And see the advice on this thread I just gave someone who has a small claim (but from Excel) which explains what to look for, what to do at this stage:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/63022803#Comment_63022803

You need to be - metaphorically speaking - tearing the Notices they sent apart, finding non-compliance in the timeline or wording, finding non-compliance in the Letter before Action you got recently before the court papers; finding non-compliance in the signage...etc. UKCPS' letters are known to be non-compliant with the BPA Code of Practice in lots of respects (did they even post it within 14 days of the incident, if there was no windscreen PCN, etc?). And I doubt they will have fulfilled the requirements of the pre-court 'Practice Direction' in their Letter before Claim. And you need to spend some time now this week, reading and understanding other people's defence points & case law and stuff about unfair contract terms, so you can include it in yours too.

This isn't just an 'appeal' of course, this is your court defence and could win you the case or even stop them from bothering to pay a hearing fee if it is robust and detailed enough. UKCPS have been known not to show up for hearings and not to pay the hearing fee at all in some well-defended cases. Sounds daunting but it isn't really, honestly, and that is why I have given you so many links, because the answers and examples are here all the time. You just need to set aside some time to defend this properly.

SamRose

Hi guys,

I am still in the middle of trying to understand all this and yes sorry you are right I have been accused of parking outside of a marked bay, not leaving the site, I was slightly confused.

Does anyone know what there issue is with parking outside a marked bay? I can't find anything that explains why this is such a massive offence, warranting a parking fine so its difficult for me to defend myself when I don't know what their problem is.

Also, I received 2 letters on the same day, can anyone direct me to the documentation that outlines the correct procedures which they have to follow (in criminal law if a breach of a Community Order is instigated, it has to be withdrawn from Court if the documentation/dates etc are incorrect)

Also, is it worth including a covering letter to Mr P Haswell informing him that I am used to being in Court as I work for the Criminal Justice System and the thought of County Court does not intimidate me or do you think it would make him 'rise to the challenge'?

Thanks in advance

Coupon-mad

SamRose wrote: »

Hi guys,

I am still in the middle of trying to understand all this and yes sorry you are right I have been accused of parking outside of a marked bay, not leaving the site, I was slightly confused.

Does anyone know what there issue is with parking outside a marked bay? I can't find anything that explains why this is such a massive offence, warranting a parking fine so its difficult for me to defend myself when I don't know what their problem is.

Also, I received 2 letters on the same day, can anyone direct me to the documentation that outlines the correct procedures which they have to follow (in criminal law if a breach of a Community Order is instigated, it has to be withdrawn from Court if the documentation/dates etc are incorrect)

Also, is it worth including a covering letter to Mr P Haswell informing him that I am used to being in Court as I work for the Criminal Justice System and the thought of County Court does not intimidate me or do you think it would make him 'rise to the challenge'?

Thanks in advance

It is not a parking fine so do not call it one, certainly not in your defence because you will be showing that this invoice is an unjust penalty - as in UKCPS v Murphy, April 2012, here (long thread well worth reading):

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=58542

And re the bit in bold they don't need an 'issue' or reason; UKCPS just ticket people on any old excuse and 'over a white line' is one of those excuses.

In the worst instances of bad parking this could be argued by a PPC that the parking prevented another customer from getting into the bay next door and therefore caused potential lost business to the retailer. If that is not the case then state that there has been no loss of space and no monetary loss either and the allegation of 'breach' is frivolous and punitive (or whatever words you prefer).

Haswell reads these forums but you could send him a separate letter in the post along the lines you state, at the same time as acknowledging the claim to the court.

- Have you complained to the retailer? If not then do so immediately.

- Which 2 letters did you get on the same day?

SamRose

Hi,

Thank you for the reply and the advice.

The letters I received on the same day were

:-final notice before Court proceedings are instigated - pay £125 in full within the next 7 days

:-10 day notice before Court action (giving me notice that the parking charge is being prepared for Court action - pay £100 in full within the next 10 days.

So which is it UKCPS?

I also don't get the sequence

£100
£120
£125
£100

if the increase is due to the debt recovery costs why is the increase not going up equally, for example £20 at a time? Why are the leaps £20, then, £5 when the only thing they have done is send a letter?

I have e-mailed the cinema but they (although very sympathetic and polite) can't help because they say its nothing to do with them. They have provided me with contact details for the land management company so I will e-mail them tonight.

Thanks again for your help.

Coupon-mad

SamRose wrote: »

They have provided me with contact details for the land management company so I will e-mail them tonight.

Do that right now - and make it an assertive complaint. UKCPS do proceed to hearings so you MUST be very proactive with your complaint.

Having acknowledged the claim (which I hope you have done already as you only had 14 days!) you only get the 14 days extended to 28 (not a new 28 days) so don't hang about putting in skeleton defence bullet points with the court. You miss that deadline and UKCPS get an automatic default win for them.

Was this for parking in a disabled bay? If so what circumstances, any good reason - such as being disabled?

SamRose

Thank you.

Yes I have submitted the request for an extension and when I rang to see if the case had been listed yet they had acknowledged the request.

I have e-mailed the land owner so will wait for a response, I suspect because it is such a massive unit and evrytime we go we see people with tickets on they will probably have a corporate response of 'thanks for getting in touch but but we don't intervene' but we'll see!

I guess I believe there to be mitigating circumstances which are important in our life but whether or not anyone else feels the same is hard to tell. My husband parked on a raised area which forms part of a pavement, skip area, etc it is proababy approx. 12 foot wide, caused no obstruction to pedestrians or vehicles, didn't block any exits etc and there were another dozen cars parked in the same place. He dropped me off to get tickets as we were running late (I am still breastfeeding our baby so was late setting off). after 15 minutes of not being able to get parked he was worried that I would be anxious so parked and came to find me. (since the death of our son 2 years ago, I suffer from panic attacks and these are heightened when I am in busy, public places). Nothing exciting or shocking but that is our reality and that is what happened that night. I can't 'fancy' it up or say anything any different. We are not wreck less, law breaking people, quite the opposite (I work for the CJS). He just made a judgement call that has resulted in months of harassment and now Court.

Do you think there is anything in the letters in terms of when they were sent?

Kind regards