Oyster card: Over 60, lives near tube station but it's not in London

sasparillo

Hi, I'm making an enquiry for a pensioner (well, over 60, 65 etc) She lives very near a tube station but it's not in London. Is there any Oyster Card offer she can take advantage of? In fact noone who lives close to and uses a tube station outside of London can vote for the Mayor of London and influence London Transport. Where she lives, there used to be the Met Police but when the first Mayor of London elections were taking place, the anomalous situation in places outside London was pointed out and quick as a flash it was decided to remove the Met Police and replace it by the county police force. However the muddle over the tube still remains. If there is a way for her to get a Freedom Pass or equivalent, please do let me know.

wealdroam

sasparillo wrote: »

If there is a way for her to get a Freedom Pass or equivalent, please do let me know.

Assuming she is old enough, she is entitled to a National Concessionary Bus Pass issued by the local authority where she lives, together with any 'extras' that local authority sees fit to offer.

She certainly is not eligible for a Freedom Pass if her principal residency isn't in London.

http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/services/freedompass/eligibility/default.htm

dzug1

That concessionary bus pass issued by Hertfordshire CC or wherever - iust as long as it's in England - is valid on all London (TfL) buses with no time restrictions

If she has a senior railcard she can register it on an Oyster for a reduction in off peak tube etc fares

sasparillo

Thanks whealdroam & dzug1 for your answers. She doesn't use the railways (unless she needs it to join up with a tube journey but she usually goes straight into London on tube - London is far nearer than other main cities in the county which of course don't have a tube line which is probably why the Met Police force was here) or the bus unless it's to hop on while in London when it's quicker than the tube. Over the years since she reached retirement age it's become more and more expensive for her to travel into London and she now has more or less stopped using the tube. It's called London Underground and London Transport but it actually is just as vital transport system for those outside London (although Londoners do also travel by tube to her town to work there, especially shop and supermarket workers.) Apart from price, it's a much shorter and more straightforward for her to go by tube to London. Half of the town on the next stop on the 'London' Underground line is in her county and half in a London borough! Maybe this was more clearcut when there was the old London County Council and urban district councils in this area. It's something that has never been addressed for those areas where the tube is the major transport artery but folks do not have a vote for the Mayor of London.

zerog

Pensioners living outside London still have to pay fares for trains, so how is it diffferent that her local train is actually a tube?

If you lived in Tattenham Corner you wouldn't get free travel on the train to London, even though the fare is set by TfL (and you'd only get a half-hourly service, which is worse than the tube, unless she lives in Chesham)

sasparillo

Hi Zerog, Thanks for your reply. The tube system in London is part of London Transport - that's all the tube stations including those outside London. And I think all the railway stations within the London tube area now also use the Oyster card set up or are going to, although I'm willing to be corrected on this. Certainly all the railway stations nearest to this pensioner which are all in London boroughs have an Oyster card system.

It's the anomaly with London Transport, the tube stations all operated by London Transport, including those in Zone 6, not the rights and wrongs of offering free travel to pensioners. Obviously those pensioners who live in the areas of zone 6 who aren't in London boroughs can't influence policy because they have no vote for the Mayor of London.

BTW just seen there is going to be a play with Sheila Hancock called "Barking in Essex". Barking is actually under the London Borough of Barking and Dagenham and on the London tube, so pensioners there must get free tube travel. Barking has has had an underground station since 1908.

As I've said, when these tube stations were original set up, I think there must have been the London County Council and the urban district councils in many areas including the area where the pensioner I know lives so maybe these areas were all integrated at that time transport-wise? At the same time, don't the postal districts cross over the boundaries of counties and London Boroughs ...

wealdroam

Sasparillo, I'm beginning to lose track of what exactly you are looking for.

If you are looking to vote for Boris, then you (or your pensioner friend) need to live in a London borough.

If you want a Freedom Pass, you need to live in a London borough.

Chesham and/or Amersham have never been in the London County Council area.

I don't know what area you are talking about, but Bushey in Hertfordshire was (maybe still is?) policed by the Metropolitan police. Bushey has never been part of LCC. Bushey has always been in Hertfordshire.

London Transport buses, used to once upon a time run out as far as Aylesbury, Windsor, Horsham, Guildford, Brentwood, Luton, etc, etc. None of these places have ever been in London... however you might define London.

When tube stations were 'set up', the commercial enterprises that built them decided where they wanted to run them.

What is your point about postal districts crossing boundaries?

Err... is there still a question that needs to be answered?

sasparillo

Hi Wealdroam,

Thanks for your message.

Regarding the Mayor of London, whoever is Mayor of London runs London Transport. London Transport's Underground system not only runs in London but outside London. Folk who live outside London in these areas, still often have to use London Underground as the main mode of transport but they have no vote for the Mayor of London. That wasn't my initial point but it is a very important point. But perhaps you don't think so.

Folks who live in places like the pensioner I am talking about do not have access to a railway station near them and the nearest railways stations are stations in London boroughs not in the county. In fact many of the tube stations in these areas replaced the railway stations taking their buildings and lines.

In the area where the pensioner lives there is only a tube station and a county bus service so to get into London by bus means going out in another direction to change to a London bus taking much longer than taking the tube. To go to London by tube from where she lives is much more straightforward and direct than the nearest big town in the county.

The pensioner whom I'm talking about has friends and relatives who live in London boroughs who can visit in Zone 6 of London Underground for free. But if she wants to visit them in their London homes using the same tube line, it's very expensive.

Oh and despite the title of the new play about an Essex gangland family, "Barking in Essex", Barking is in the London Borough of Barking and Dagenham. Barking has had a tube station since 1908. According to Wikipedia "The borough was formed in 1965 by the London Government Act 1963 as the London Borough of Barking. The constituent parts were almost all of the Municipal Borough of Barking and the greater part of the Municipal Borough of Dagenham, the former area of which was transferred to Greater London from Essex. ... The borough was renamed Barking and Dagenham in 1980."

I assume the play title is ironic but it does show up the confusion over "London" Transport and the "London" Underground, made even more confusing with privatisation and companies coming in. Again this isn't about the wrongs and rights of privatisation but folks are getting caught in the clash between the old (and new) political boundaries and the realities of the infrastructure.

Why I mentioned the London County Council is because, as far as I can tell, it was the Greater London Council (GLC) which introduced the Freedom Pass in the 1970s, but it was just for buses (before bus services were privatised when it was a public transport service, not companies which might even cross county borders as well) at first and then extended to the tube in the 1980s but people didn't feel the cost of fares as they do now.

In 2000 the Greater London Authority and Transport for London was established. And Transport for London contributes towards the Freedom Pass, so commuters and other users from outside London but still on the London tube line are contributing to a Freedom Pass they have no chance of getting unless they move into London.

In fact, someone who commutes to work in admin offices Transport for London in London but lives outside London on a tube line is contributing to the Freedom Pass. When they reach the retirement age, unless the Freedom Pass is given to them as the equivalent of a gold watch, s/he will not have a Freedom Pass!

So I'm not saying the Mayor of London isn't the inheritor of a situation or being party political or anti-mayorist. I'm just pointing out the situation.

For this pensioner of my original postings and many others the tube is the main mode of transport in their area. It's even much quicker to travel one stop by tube than catch a bus to go to that same place. The very next stop on the tube to her is half London Borough and half County Council. So pensioners in one half of the same place have a Freedom Pass and the other half don't although they both use the same tube line under Transport for London. And half of them have a vote for the Mayor of London while the other half don't. Actually thinking about it, it may make even make the hilarious plot of a new play ...

wealdroam

sasparillo wrote: »

...so commuters and other users from outside London but still on the London tube line are contributing to a Freedom Pass they have no chance of getting unless they move into London.

And so does everyone else in the world who visits London and buys a ticket to use TFL's services. What compensation do you feel they deserve?

You have clearly done a bit of research here.
Did you notice that at the time most of the 'London' underground train network was built, it was built in the County of Middlesex... not in London at all.
Not to sure how that fact helps in my or your argument though.

You really are stretching the bounds of credibility here.

As you have already been advised, either move to London or lobby your local authority.
You, or your pensioner friend, won't get a Freedom Pass any other way.

sasparillo

Um, I seem to have excited high passions in you wealdrome And the pensioner in question isn't askng for "compensation". Nor is this about a "visitor" to London using London underground. This is about someone who is a resident near a London underground station and the tube is the main way of public transport for many residents living in the area who don't even have a vote for the politicians affecting the underground while half of those pensioners at a neighbouring stop do! If she wasn't living near a tube station and was just a "visitor", I would obviously not be posting. I'm talking about regular users who live in the area of the London Underground stop. The very name of the stop shows the area it's supposed to serve.

I've looked up the history of the underground now. It says "The Metropolitan Railway (also known as the Met[note 1]) was a passenger and goods railway that served London from 1863 to 1933, its main line heading north from the capital's financial heart in the City to what were to become the Middlesex suburbs."

So actually it was about the City of London first and foremost and at the end of the line "what were to become the Middlesex suburbs" - they weren't even built then! Dredging my memory there was a Middlesex Guildhall even used to stand in Parliament Square as part of the archaic crown court set up - that's another lot of boundaries - there's the postal code boundaries, the court circuit boundaries, the parliamentary boundaries, the country boundaries which used to also have urban district council boundaries - abolished 1974 - the supermarket/food/goods distribution boundaries and also within the London Transport boundaries, there's apparently also the Freedom Pass boundaries ... Passport to Pimlico, eat your heart out ! ) London underground is one transport system under the Mayor of London and there is at least one stop in which half the pensioners live in that area are able to claim a Freedom Pass and the other half are not. This is not a political posting, as you must have noticed. But it's a fact that when the old GLC extended the Freedom Pass to the tube, it split the previously totally integrated tube system and discriminated against some of the tube's regular pensioner passengers and this has carried on since then. Again, obviously, since times have got economically harder, this discrimination against folk resident near a London underground stop but not in London has become more and more of a hardship. Anyway, off to bed! Have a good weekend!

zerog

blah blah blah. Why don't you just tell us where your friend lives?

Yes, it's unfair that people living outside London who use TfL services have no influence on Boris. But this applies to ALL passengers, not just pensioners.

Every area (except Chesham) where TfL services go outside London boroughs receives a better and cheaper service than non-TfL services in Zone 6 but not in London boroughs.