Official MSE Free Solar Panel guide discussion

Davesnave

redsoulman wrote: »

An elderly relative was recently approached to have "free solar panels" installed on their roof by "A Shade Greener" the company mentioned on this site.

The second issue I had was "A Shade Greener" do not advertise their telephone number on their website or marketing literature...... It bothered me that MSE had given this company creditability by including them on their site
.

Where is this company endorsed by MSE?

I don't believe it is, but if you can direct us to the page, I'm willing to change my mind.

Cardew

redsoulman wrote: »

An elderly relative was recently approached to have "free solar panels" installed on their roof by "A Shade Greener" the company mentioned on this site. before allowing them to carry out any work they asked me to advise as they know I have my own panels. The first thing I did was ask several building societies if the house was sold would they give a mortgage? The answer was a resounding NO. They all stated there would be a conflict of ownership and thus would not offer a mortgage.

The second issue I had was "A Shade Greener" do not advertise their telephone number on their website or marketing literature. to contact them to cancel the appointment that had been made, I had to obtain it from another website. It bothered me that MSE had given this company creditability by including them on their site as it is from this very website that I always use the rule "if they do not readily make available a telephone number, then don't touch them".

Conclusion "If it looks to be good to be true. It is". My recommendation to anyone who at some time in the next 20 years thinks they may want to sell the house; is do not fit someone else's panels on your roof...

Welcome to the forum.

ASG do have a phone Number of their website in FAQ

Have you got a phone number?

The phone number for A Shade Greener is 0845 519 1598.

Here are some others.

A Shade greener 01226 369998 a shade greener do not advertise ther phone number on there web site or on any paper work A Shade Greener 0845 073 9501 01226 352018 Free solar panels A shade Greener Ltd 0845 301 2343 01226 369990 NA Everlasting Boilers - trade name of A Shade Greene 0845 129 2125 01226 352014 01226352014 geographic number goes through to same call centre that deal with all Everlasting/A Shade Greener enquirers.

A Shade Greener(ASG) were the first 'Rent a Roof'(RAR) firm in UK and there have been masses of posts about RAR in general and ASG in particular.

I assume they discourage phone calls as they don't want a large call centre staff to answer questions until they know if the property is suitable - they use Google Earth I believe to check suitability.


I am not aware that MSE have ever endorsed ASG but along with hundreds of companies they have been mentioned on their website.


As it happens I totally agree with your views on RAR installations and have voiced my opposition frequently; I think it was a disgrace that the government allowed a firm to cream off huge subsidies - that we pay for in increased electricity charges - that were clearly intended for individual home owners. They have installed some 43,000 systems.


It is also pertinent that the benefits to RAR customers are not as large as many think. In fact the Energy Saving Trust has recently downgraded their estimate to 25% of the electricity generated will be used in the property.


A couple of further points.


Of the many companies offering RAR systems, ASG have had few complaints on MSE and most customers have been full of praise for the way the firm operate. There is a long thread asking for views on ASG

ASG maintain that they don't have problems with their customers selling their houses. Again from FAQ:

Do you have any comments from people who have sold or bought homes that have roofs leased out for the free solar panels, ie any problems in buying or the selling side?

We don't have any comments from people who have had problems, but around 60 houses have now been sold with our systems in place, but there may be even more. We only actually find out when the new owners contact us to let us know that they are now the new contact and have moved in. If there were people with problems selling, we reckon we would know about those!

Again it is pertinent to point out that only 60 houses in 43,000 is a tiny proportion, and many property sales might have fallen through because of the panels and mortgage difficulties. Indeed prospective customers may well be put off by RAR panels which give little benefit to the home owner.

There have been reports on MSE of difficulty with obtaining a mortgage on a RAR property, but I am surprised that you got such a response from the Building Societies you contacted.

redsoulman

Thanks for your responses.

Firstly the phone number. This was not the primary point, but I have just been on their website again, this time looking in FAQ (why bury your telephone in there?) and still was unable to find it. there is no question "Have you got a telephone number?" I did find a number in the boiler section, but the point is as ML has often said "If they do not have a telephone number clearly available, beware!".

By saying MSE endorse this company, I mean it in the broader sense of by including them on your site and not condemning them, you are endorsing them by association. here is your comments.

"One free provider we were able to check out which has an established track record, is A Shade Greener*. There are a few smaller companies doing the same which may well be legitimate, but it's harder to check them out.

Who can get this?

A Shade Greener covers parts of north and south-west England, plus the Midlands. See a map of the areas it covers. You need to own your home. If you live in Cornwall, Kent, East Anglia or London, check if you're eligible.

Your roof must usually be 24 square metres due south, or within 35 degrees of south. Maintenance is included and A Shade Greener pays for the insurance.

Is it any good?

It has some good feedback from forumites and there are no charges at all, even if you need non-standard scaffolding. It also insures you, so repairs won't cost you a penny. A Shade Greener also says it has never had an insurance claim."


60 sales out of thousands. How many were cash sales? how many were B2L investors (panels could be perceived to make letting easier). I contacted 4 major lenders direct and 2 brokers with whole market mortgages. They were all adamant "we will not offer or cannot find a provider who will offer a mortgage on a property that has solar panels owned by a third party".

I did not mention the financial gains to the occupiers in my first posting, but am glad you did. I did a quick calculation of available energy to the household based on the detailed records I have from our installation. I used the householders information of daytime electrical use and came to the conclusion if they were able save £75.00 per annum they will have done well (combi boiler, no water storage for dumping spare energy) £50 being more realistic. Don't forget that the high solar gain periods are when most people have the least need for energy (unless they have air conditioning).

Finally, lets face it. these companies are only it for the money. they have no real interest in saving the planet or helping home owners save money. If the financial return to them was not there, neither would they be..

Cardew

The telephone number on their website is here:


http://ashadegreener.co.uk/faqs/customers-questions-answered.php


I cannot see why lack of a phone number on a website is a problem. They want prospective customers to check if their property is suitable before entering into telephone conversations.


In the thread below MSE asked for views about ASG. They do the same for almost every major firm operating in the energy field.


https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3322744


Whilst I personally think the RAR schemes are very poor value for the customer, it surely is valid for MSE to ask for opinions on any firm in this field. ASG were the original firm operating and are the biggest. I don't think this qualifies as MSE endorsing the firm; and why should they condemn them as you suggest?


Whilst you and I, and many others, think RAR is a poor scheme for house owners, others clearly disagree and they have installed 43,000 systems! and the feedback from those owners is generally positive.


I would agree with you about the level of savings for many people - particularly with a combi - to be lower than many hope/believe. It is likely that many people having made a commitment will defend their choice and lack objectivity.


Lastly, of course ASG are a commercial firm who are interested in making a profit on their investment; nowt wrong with that!

Davesnave

Cardew wrote: »

I would agree with you about the level of savings for many people - particularly with a combi - to be lower than many hope/believe. It is likely that many people having made a commitment will defend their choice and lack objectivity.

....And this is true of many other decisions people make, which are discussed on the various boards here.

None of this represents endorsement by MSE.

Ashadegreener_representative

Hi,

I just want to clear a few things up for you.

redsoulman wrote: »

Thanks for your responses.

Firstly the phone number. This was not the primary point, but I have just been on their website again, this time looking in FAQ (why bury your telephone in there?) and still was unable to find it. there is no question "Have you got a telephone number?" I did find a number in the boiler section, but the point is as ML has often said "If they do not have a telephone number clearly available, beware!".

The reason we do not supply a telephone number on our website is due to the amount of enquiries we get, we would never be able to handle the volume if everyone called in so we prospective customers to email their enquiry through. We do have a number and supply that to all customers who have applied and arranged a survey, this allows us to prioritise care for those who are going through the application process or have an issue that they need resolving urgently.

We do aim to reply to all email/website enquiries within 48 hours.

By saying MSE endorse this company, I mean it in the broader sense of by including them on your site and not condemning them, you are endorsing them by association. here is your comments.

"One free provider we were able to check out which has an established track record, is A Shade Greener*. There are a few smaller companies doing the same which may well be legitimate, but it's harder to check them out.

Who can get this?

A Shade Greener covers parts of north and south-west England, plus the Midlands. See a map of the areas it covers. You need to own your home. If you live in Cornwall, Kent, East Anglia or London, check if you're eligible.

Your roof must usually be 24 square metres due south, or within 35 degrees of south. Maintenance is included and A Shade Greener pays for the insurance.

Is it any good?

It has some good feedback from forumites and there are no charges at all, even if you need non-standard scaffolding. It also insures you, so repairs won't cost you a penny. A Shade Greener also says it has never had an insurance claim."

Endorse is not the same as they do not condemn.

We're not condemned because there is no reason to; we have a sound business model and an excellent reputation.

We're featured on the solar panels advice page due to the fact that we're the largest provider of free solar panels in the UK with a proven track record that stretches back to the start of the FIT.

60 sales out of thousands. How many were cash sales? how many were B2L investors (panels could be perceived to make letting easier). I contacted 4 major lenders direct and 2 brokers with whole market mortgages. They were all adamant "we will not offer or cannot find a provider who will offer a mortgage on a property that has solar panels owned by a third party".

Unfortunately I do not have the details on the nature of the sales. I also apologise for an error on our site, the figure quoted is from a number of years ago and out of date. The current figure stands at around 1,000.

Our lease adheres to the guidelines set out by the CML and we obtain over 450 mortgage consents per week. All major mortgage providers have no issues with our lease as do most of the less well known providers.

Unfortunately we find that when people contact either a mortgage advisor or a provider directly, they get the wrong information. Many mortgage providers use call centres and often the information they give customers is woefully incorrect. The issue is different for mortgage advisers, many simply fail to do the research correctly and give a blanket answer based on tabloid information. I must stress, this is not true of all mortgage providers/advisers, the ones that are doing their jobs right will tell you that there is no issue.

If you have a question about a specific mortgage company please email enquiries@ashadegreener.co.uk and the office will inform you if they consent.

I did not mention the financial gains to the occupiers in my first posting, but am glad you did. I did a quick calculation of available energy to the household based on the detailed records I have from our installation. I used the householders information of daytime electrical use and came to the conclusion if they were able save £75.00 per annum they will have done well (combi boiler, no water storage for dumping spare energy) £50 being more realistic. Don't forget that the high solar gain periods are when most people have the least need for energy (unless they have air conditioning).

The savings depend on the generation of a system, household consumption and living habits. It is for this reason that we tend not to quote a monetary figure as it is far too subjective. From research we have carried out the average savings on consumption with our solar panels is around 37%.

The reason I state our panels in the example and not all solar panels is due to us having to have a minimum generation a system needs to achieve for us to install. This allows us to gauge more accurately the impact each of our systems are likely to have. The average generation of each of our systems last year was over 3,300 kWh.

There is little evidence to support the commonly held belief that electricity consumption sky-rockets during winter. It will obviously be true for households with electric heating but as most of the UK is heated by mains gas, and that many electric only houses fail to meet the necessary EPC requirements to benefit from the FIT (essentially making it very unlikely they will buy panels), we can safely remove these from the equation.

Most electricity is consumed through routine household chores that take place year round. The appliances that tend to be the biggest consumption offenders are; electric showers, dishwashers, washing machines, tumble dryers, irons, vacuum cleaners, kettles, toasters, ovens, microwaves, hair-dryer, etc. All these are appliances that are used throughout the year at a fairly stable rate. For summertime you can add electric mowers and strimmers to this list as heavy usage appliances and these are unlikely to be used in the winter time at all.

During the summer there is over 16 hours of sunlight per day in which solar panels will be generating electricity, the most savvy amongst us use this period wisely and they're the ones that make the most savings.

Finally, lets face it. these companies are only it for the money. they have no real interest in saving the planet or helping home owners save money. If the financial return to them was not there, neither would they be..

I would like to take a moment to defend A Shade Greener and the free solar model.

I believe the reason most people have bought solar is for the return, as I wager you yourself have. That is not a judgement on you, many of us want to do something for the environment but until the FIT was introduced it was simply not feasible. At the end of the day we're a business and need to make money for our investors, many of which are pension funds whose members need the security that the return of the FIT provides. This goal is no different from an individual making an educated decision to buy a system based on the return it will give. If we do not make money then the investment will be withdrawn, we will cease to trade and over 1,000 people will be made redundant.

We have made a business out of providing a service to people that would otherwise be reserved for those with enough money. Many of our customers are elderly and do not wish to invest what money they have in solar panels (or are not in any position to) but still wish to make a saving. Many others have lost their jobs and need to make savings any way they can, and still others simply do not wish to invest in solar themselves. Without ASG as an option these people would be effectively exempt from solar all together, and as the FIT is paid by everyone I personally believe this to be a little biased towards those who happen to be able to afford it.

That said, we do not knock solar as an investment for those who are looking. It is not something that ASG provide but I'm certain there is plenty of advice on MSE with regards to the best options.

Hope this helps

J3man

Hi, Does anyone have any experience of using funded solar incentives? They seem a good deal with no money up front, just a reduced bill. I'm thinking of using solarfundingincentive.org they look okay so wheres the catch?
jon

Pinkrobin

Hello,

My sister is in the process of buying a house. The one she is currently renting has new people moving in on the 5th Jan. The one she is buying has gone through probate and the offer has been accepted. Unfortunately it has solar panels on from a company who ties you into a lease contract. It seems that dying doesn't exempt you from the contract though! My sister wants to buy the house very much - the price has been lowered as no-one else could get a mortgage on it. As it's ex-local authority housing, the Council have admitted they allowed the panels to be put up but are now saying they need to submit a retrospective planning order for them. My sister can't complete on the sale until this has been done. Is there anyway to speed up the process? She is dealing with her solicitor / council planning offices who only answer the phone at limited times of the day, daily and is unsure as to whether she and her family have a house to move into. She has set up schools for the kids etc / bought uniform / paid for survey and doesn't want to cut her losses. She has considered asking the sellers if she can rent the house until the planning permission has been granted retrospectively, the house completes etc. But the house is very run down and not really habitable yet for her and her young family. They have builders on stand by for when they move in to put in new heating etc but can't give a date for that to start as she doesn't know when the planning permission will be granted. No-one seems to have any sense of urgency! Can the solar panels not just be taken down and given back if the homeowner has died?? It seems pretty shoddy that they are still up and everyone is having to jump through hoops as a result?? The company is Home Sun - Daniel Green.
Many thanks for any advice or thoughts!

Cardew

Panels cannot be simply taken down when someone dies as the lease is on the property.


Home Sun may have a buy-back clause, but that could cost your sister a considerable amount; but then she would get the income from the panels.


If Home Sun won't co-operate with retrospective planning permission, ask the council to get the panels disconnected as unauthorised until it is sorted out. The disconnected panels will produce no income and might get things moving.

zeupater

Hi

I don't really understand what's happening here .... unless there's a really specific reason (listed building etc) then panels are normally classified as PD (permitted development) and therefore don't require planning permission. This could therefore do with a little clarification.

In the event that it's not just a case of an inexperienced solicitor or conveyancing clerk causing confusion, there is an approach which would be worth investigation .... Without permission the panels shouldn't be there, so who was responsible for ensuring that the installation would be covered by PD ? - the previous owner, or the RaR company ? ..... I'd ring the solicitor and ask, you might just find that a deal would be in the making with the RaR provider .... opposition to a retrospective planning application resulting in it not being granted would mean that the panels would need to be removed, almost certainly at the expense of the RaR company, in which case an argument could be made to 'help them out' by purchasing the system at the current going rate (-depreciation !) and then not opposing the retrospective planning - somewhere around £1/Wp could be considered a fair starting point, but do make sure that the FiT entitlement is transferred as part of the process ...

Get it checked out, you could be holding some extremely 'high ground' in any negotiations, whichever outcome you would like to see ....

HTH
Z