Official MSE Free Solar Panel guide discussion

loachy_2

For information .The majority of solar panels are made from polysilicon although there is some research into perovskites although I am not an expert.. The majority of polysilicon is sourced in China and the majority of solar panels(I believe around 75/80%)are thought to be  produced there using  predominately slave labour (Uyghur people).If individuals and the government are aiming for more solar power  there needs to be more investigation and indeed developing production in the UK or the western world . It may be  worth asking your supplier the source of their panels is you are planning installation. .

pensionpawn

snigehere said:

If you are considering solar panels go for the biggest system you can afford - don't be fobbed of by companies saying you can only have 4kw .. a chunk of the cost is getting the panels up on the roof .. adding more panels at that time is cheaper than adding later.  Getting a bigger inverter at install is incremental cost, getting it later typically needs a whole new inverter.  I had two suppliers saying I could only have 4kw but in reality its easy to get 9kw.  4kw does not need any pre-approval paperwork .. 9kw needs an approval from the distribution company (DNO) which is a simple form and in most cases its approved - just takes a few weeks longer to get the approval.   Think about your power needs for the next 10 years ... electric car, aircon with increasing temperatures and decide if 4kw is enough ...  

I agree entirely! I had 7.1 kWs installed 6.75 years ago, 4 facing due East, the rest due West, covering all my roof. My FiT unit rate is less for installing greater than the default 4kWs and thus I knew it would take longer to pay off (higher install cost, lower FiT), which should now be Easter (7.25 years). However I was planning well ahead for this situation that we find ourselves in now of rising energy costs / potential energy rationing. The panels alone reduce my bills by at least 25%, the solar divert allows me to turn off the gas boiler (C/H back on soon though) throughout most of the summer. I was hoping to add a Powerwall this October however that's now April at the earliest, which is when A/C is being plumbed in and will be free to use, day and night. No EV though as our mileage doesn't warrant the additional cost. Install as much as you can afford / are allowed as just with pensions, your future self will thank you big time!

pensionpawn

snigehere said:

LeeU said:

I have 8.6kWp of panels, 10kWh of batteries, I'm currently using Octopus' std tariff and use their Agile Export tariff.
Solar panels on their own are not worth it in my eyes, you need the batteries to help make the most out of the electricity you produce.

I don't think its as simple a decision as you suggest.  

Deciding to use a battery system really depends on your personal circumstances and energy management.  To get the most from a system without batteries you need to move the big consumption to the day time - dishwasher, washing machine, tumble drier etc etc - If you are not at home in the daytime then you have to use some technology to enable that automation such as smart plugs to turn things on.

If you cook with electricity in the evening then in the summertime it can be from solar but in the winter, without battery, its going to be grid.

I work from home so its easy to kick the equipment into life manually ... I have an 8kw system with 45% east facing and 55% west .. since March 22nd I have saved £590 from my electricity bill .. I am looking at around 8 to 9 year return on investment so not too shabby. 

But ... if I were not at home then I would have to sort out some smart plugs to turn things on at the right time or invest in a battery system .. but battery is another chunk of money with its own return in investment timescale.

I believe that battery systems are overpriced at the moment due to constraints on battery supplies.  The tesla powerwall system uses car batteries that fail testing for the car but there is not sufficient production of car batteries to drive down the cost of the powerwall.  I would expect that in 1 to 2 years the cost of the battery systems will fall as supply improves and performance increases. 

Agree again. I've been costing the RoI for a Tesla Powerwall for the last 5 years or so and I could never make it financially worth while. The RoI was 15-20 years with a warranty of 10. That said, with rising energy prices our RoI is now around 7 years. However what nudged me over the line to order one is the "Island Mode" which allows your panels / battery to keep your house powered in the event of a grid outage (damage / rationing). I deem part of the cost as "insurance" which I don't expect to see a (fiscal) return on. The Powerwall, becomes more useful as part of a system. Aircon (and the fridge, freezer etc) can run for free overnight and it can soak up E7 to massively reduce cost through the winter. No more screaming at the Gods when I put the dishwasher on with clear blue skies only for clouds to appear out of nowhere and start importing. Solar panels are worth it (for me) on their own however they are even better with a battery, however the battery also has to fiscally justify itself.

QrizB

Joy_for_Liberty said:

Dear Martin,

Martin Lewis (if that's the Martin you had in mind) hasn't been directly associated with this forum for many years.

Police crime reference number HC20012022/0208

An electrical explosion occurred when their electrician was connecting up their installation causing total loss of electricity for over a day.

Your installer's response can be seen on Trustpilot here.

As you're now involved in a court case I hope justice is done in due course.

[Deleted User]

QrizB said:

Joy_for_Liberty said:

Dear Martin,

Martin Lewis (if that's the Martin you had in mind) hasn't been directly associated with this forum for many years.

Police crime reference number HC20012022/0208

An electrical explosion occurred when their electrician was connecting up their installation causing total loss of electricity for over a day.

Your installer's response can be seen on Trustpilot here.

As you're now involved in a court case I hope justice is done in due course.

Public posting regarding an ongoing court case doesn't seem like the most sensible idea by JfL.

mickteece

Concerning "Solar Panel Funding" - the review I left on Trustpilot
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Beware of 5* reviews if they are almost identical in their contact, sycophancy and language and appear to be written by the same person using the same phrases.

I was read a preprepared sales pitch by someone calling themselves "Jade" at absolute breakneck speed- minus any meaningful facts figures, product specifications, including the manufacturer of the panels they use, etc. - yes, not all panels are of the same quality or the same price.  Some are high-quality merchandise, while others are anything but.

"Jade" seemed particularly exercised that I should ask her to slow down - or ask any questions and finally, on my fourth time of asking, agreed to pop either her script - or the details contained in what she speed read to me - to me in an email.

I have just contacted the company that promises ""BETTER THAN FREE"" again to ask them for the details that they were happy to speed read to me and they steadfastly refuse - five times - on the basis that, "We can only do it verbally to make sure you understand".

I suggested that to satisfy that criteria, they emailed me the details and called me a few minutes later to set things up.

Predictably, this company promised "BETTER THAN FREE SOLAR PANELS", again refused.

You might be forgiven for thinking it strange - certainly unethical - that a reputable company offering what appears to be a once-in-a-lifetime deal that delivers a product that is "BETTER THAN FREE",  trades in a field where, regrettably, crooks, charlatans, con-artists and shysters are known to operate in abundance, refuses to allow potential customers to see it in writing in order to understand exactly what it is they are signing up to.

I shall be making WHICH? magazine - who advise potential customers to always get things in writing - aware of my experience as well as Martin Lewis at Martin's Money Saving Expert.

Buyer beware.

raymiller

Can't get SEG payments due to not having MCS certification.
I am looking for help with this & have written to my MP (see below) but if anyone has any more information or similar concerns I would be very interested.

"I, like an increasing number of UK householders, have had solar panels installed in my house to save energy and to “Go Green". After I showed an interest in taking this step I was inundated by lots of companies vying for the business and we eventually chose one that could carry out the install the soonest. They claimed to have the necessary Microgeneration Certification Scheme (MCS) certification but it transpires that this was a false claim.

I am not complaining about the fact that I was misled (caveat emptor) but not having an MCS certificate now leaves me in the position where not only do I not earn any money from the Smart Export Guarantee (SEG), no matter how small, I now find that I am providing electricity to my supplier for free. I find it bad enough that I buy electricity from my supplier at 35.13p per kWh and would only receive 5.6p per kWh when I sell it back to them, but now I am not even getting that.

My background as an electrical engineer makes me believe that the solar energy system that I have had installed is of a good standard and believe that if examined by a professional MCS installer it would pass the requirements to be certified as acceptable by my electricity supplier for SEG payments.

I appreciate that energy suppliers need protection against poor quality installations and accept that installations need to be certified but, frustratingly, I cannot now find a way that I can have my solar energy system tested for the necessary certification and I don't believe there is any vehicle for achieving this. This I believe is restrictive practice and that there should be some way that a system that has already been installed can be certified retrospectively.

I am sure other people will find themselves in this situation and strongly feel that a process needs to be found that is acceptable to both householders and energy suppliers to resolve this issue."

zeupater

raymiller said:

Can't get SEG payments due to not having MCS certification.
I am looking for help with this & have written to my MP (see below) but if anyone has any more information or similar concerns I would be very interested.

"I, like an increasing number of UK householders, have had solar panels installed in my house to save energy and to “Go Green". After I showed an interest in taking this step I was inundated by lots of companies vying for the business and we eventually chose one that could carry out the install the soonest. They claimed to have the necessary Microgeneration Certification Scheme (MCS) certification but it transpires that this was a false claim.

I am not complaining about the fact that I was misled (caveat emptor) but not having an MCS certificate now leaves me in the position where not only do I not earn any money from the Smart Export Guarantee (SEG), no matter how small, I now find that I am providing electricity to my supplier for free. I find it bad enough that I buy electricity from my supplier at 35.13p per kWh and would only receive 5.6p per kWh when I sell it back to them, but now I am not even getting that.

My background as an electrical engineer makes me believe that the solar energy system that I have had installed is of a good standard and believe that if examined by a professional MCS installer it would pass the requirements to be certified as acceptable by my electricity supplier for SEG payments.

I appreciate that energy suppliers need protection against poor quality installations and accept that installations need to be certified but, frustratingly, I cannot now find a way that I can have my solar energy system tested for the necessary certification and I don't believe there is any vehicle for achieving this. This I believe is restrictive practice and that there should be some way that a system that has already been installed can be certified retrospectively.

I am sure other people will find themselves in this situation and strongly feel that a process needs to be found that is acceptable to both householders and energy suppliers to resolve this issue."

Hi

You may spark more interest if you posted a new thread on the green & ethical board of this forum as opposed to tagging the issue to an old thread dedicated towards 'rent-a-roof' (/free) installations ...

HTH - Z

ChimaeraMoon

I've just had solar panels fitted as part of ECO4 scheme. I was going to get a smart meter fitted and go on eg Octopus tracker but when I mentioned to one of the electricians that I still had an old meter he said to keep it as long as I could because the electricity produced by the solar panels would make the meter go backwards, saving me whatever rate per kwh I would be paying eg currently octopus variable at 25p rather then paying Octopus 25p pkwh and only getting 15p back per kwh generated. The installers know i dont have a smart meter and said I didn't have to have one BUT it says in the small print that "the supplier must ensure the import meter is of a type that will not subtract the number of units exported". Does this refer to an old style meter rather than smart meter?What's my situation? Is it mine or the suppliers responsibility to ensure I had/have a smart meter? 

QrizB

ChimaeraMoon said:

I've just had solar panels fitted as part of ECO4 scheme. I was going to get a smart meter fitted and go on eg Octopus tracker but when I mentioned to one of the electricians that I still had an old meter he said to keep it as long as I could because the electricity produced by the solar panels would make the meter go backwards,

Your installer is encouraging you to commit fraud.

ChimaeraMoon said:

The installers know i dont have a smart meter and said I didn't have to have one BUT it says in the small print that "the supplier must ensure the import meter is of a type that will not subtract the number of units exported". Does this refer to an old style meter rather than smart meter?What's my situation? Is it mine or the suppliers responsibility to ensure I had/have a smart meter? 

You @ChimaeraMoon need to tell your supplier.

Otherwise, when your supplier finds out, as a minimum they will charge you for their estimate of the electricity you've stolen.

The small print is your installer covering themselves. When you get caught thy'll be able to point at the small print, claim they told you to inform your supplier and shuck any responsibility.