Official MSE Free Solar Panel guide discussion

LeeU

Elahermster said:

I had a company rep from Project Solar visit yesterday.  I have been quoted £11,000 for five panels to go on south east facing roof.  With battery , inverter etc.  Not sure whether to go through with this.  No paperwork left with me, signed something on an ipad.  Doe anybody know Project Solar?

I had a rep come round, I'd already had multiple quotes, etc, and knew what I wanted.
The Project Solar rep was nothing more than a con artist, refused to even talk to me unless my wife was present, never gave me a total cost, I had NO choice in the battery size, the inverter make/model, etc.
After being at my house for 2 hours and offering to give me 10 minutes to discuss this with my wife (I'd not seen the total cost by this point), he left and emailed me the quote, £23000.
Do not use them, there are plenty more companies that are better, cancel the agreement and go elsewhere.

LeeU

I have 8.6kWp of panels, 10kWh of batteries, I'm currently using Octopus' std tariff and use their Agile Export tariff.
Solar panels on their own are not worth it in my eyes, you need the batteries to help make the most out of the electricity you produce.
Since March with the reduction in usage from the grid and the exporting I've saved around £600.
June alone I used 613kWh but only 44kWh of that came from the grid, my exports were worth £67.84, which means in real terms I got paid just under £40 and had totally free electricity.
The panels produce around 93% of what is used in the house, that includes the washing machine, tumble dryer, dishwasher, air fryer, electric fan oven, multiple computers, Xbox's, tvs etc.

If you want solar and batteries please get multiple quotes, don't be forced into signing with anyone at a design visit.

Spies

LeeU said:

I have 8.6kWp of panels, 10kWh of batteries, I'm currently using Octopus' std tariff and use their Agile Export tariff.
Solar panels on their own are not worth it in my eyes, you need the batteries to help make the most out of the electricity you produce.
Since March with the reduction in usage from the grid and the exporting I've saved around £600.
June alone I used 613kWh but only 44kWh of that came from the grid, my exports were worth £67.84, which means in real terms I got paid just under £40 and had totally free electricity.
The panels produce around 93% of what is used in the house, that includes the washing machine, tumble dryer, dishwasher, air fryer, electric fan oven, multiple computers, Xbox's, tvs etc.

If you want solar and batteries please get multiple quotes, don't be forced into signing with anyone at a design visit.

Sorry but I disagree, I still get a big saving on my bill and I don't have batteries.

Last months electricity bill was actually zero due to the money I made from SEG.

Energy I export isn't wasted, I'm helping to greenify the local grid, when it's a really clear day for example, my panels could easily be powering half a dozen houses on my street.

LeeU

tteedd said:

I have a standard gas boiler at present for heating and hot water with immersion back up.

If I have a solar system fitted I will clearly use the immersion and turn off the water heating.

But can I improve things further by heating up the water in the heating system in the winter rather than selling it to the energy company?

In the winter you may only generate 4-5kWh of electricity per day due to the limited amount of day light. So you'll probably use that.

Beartricks

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this but I’m looking to power or partly power a small (8’x10’) garden workshop on solar. Currently there’s no mains electricity and I power my tools by running a 25m extension cord from the house.

Mostly I’d be powering the lights and charging phone and iPad while I work, but I do have a woodworking lathe with a 3/4hp motor, a 2hp planer thicknesser, circular saw, sanders, a few battery operated tools that need recharging, shop vac and 1/8 hp dust filter As with all workshops these tools are used in short bursts aside from the dust filter which gets used as much as possible.

I’m hoping at some point to add a pottery wheel (1/2 hp) and a small electric kiln which will probably exceed what the solar will be able to handle so will need to be on the mains. Maybe even in the house. 

The garden workshop roof is south facing and gets sun all day. Is it worth me looking in to this? I know I’d probably need a battery system as it isn’t connected to the mains but I’m really struggling to figure out whether there’s an affordable option that will actually save me money and won’t be a pain in the backside. I also have no idea which manufacturers are reputable.

zeupater

Beartricks said:

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this but I’m looking to power or partly power a small (8’x10’) garden workshop on solar. Currently there’s no mains electricity and I power my tools by running a 25m extension cord from the house.

Mostly I’d be powering the lights and charging phone and iPad while I work, but I do have a woodworking lathe with a 3/4hp motor, a 2hp planer thicknesser, circular saw, sanders, a few battery operated tools that need recharging, shop vac and 1/8 hp dust filter As with all workshops these tools are used in short bursts aside from the dust filter which gets used as much as possible.

I’m hoping at some point to add a pottery wheel (1/2 hp) and a small electric kiln which will probably exceed what the solar will be able to handle so will need to be on the mains. Maybe even in the house. 

The garden workshop roof is south facing and gets sun all day. Is it worth me looking in to this? I know I’d probably need a battery system as it isn’t connected to the mains but I’m really struggling to figure out whether there’s an affordable option that will actually save me money and won’t be a pain in the backside. I also have no idea which manufacturers are reputable.

Hi

It's extremely unlikely that you'll make the figures work for reliably powering the workshop items without linking to the grid or having a considerable investment sitting idle for most of the time, in which case you'll still need to link to the house.

Myself, I'd be looking at dropping ~25m of underground armoured cable link in a trench for a permanent shed connection then, if still interested in installing a renewable energy solution, look at a grid connect solar array based on the house itself.

Affordable (??) stand-alone solution for lighting/charging etc (without workshop tools!) would probably look like a 12V solar battery charger setup, a 12V leisure battery (caravan type) & a couple of 12V automotive type round plug connectors ... there's plenty of readily available chargers, lights etc that run 12V so it's actually a flexible solution ...

HTH - Z 

snigehere

tteedd said:

I have a standard gas boiler at present for heating and hot water with immersion back up.

If I have a solar system fitted I will clearly use the immersion and turn off the water heating.

But can I improve things further by heating up the water in the heating system in the winter rather than selling it to the energy company?

You can get a device called an iBoost .. You attach a clip-on sensor on the grid side of the meter and the device will turn on the emersion heater when you have spare electricity (eg exporting).  It adjusts the power to the emersion depending on how much spare power you have.  It will take a bit of balancing to make sure the water is hot when you need it.  The system works best if you have an economy 7 hot water tank - eg two heater elements or one element low down in the tank.   With a standard tank the emersion heater is in the top and so not all the tank is heated by the emersion.  I have set mine up so the boiler gives a boost last thing at night so there is hot water for showers first thing in the morning and the iBoost reheats and keeps the water hot in the day.  It probably needs more work to get the balance right. I have had mine since march and its diverted about 190kw but at the expense of SEG payment .. i am not sure its paying its way ... 

snigehere

If you are considering solar panels go for the biggest system you can afford - don't be fobbed of by companies saying you can only have 4kw .. a chunk of the cost is getting the panels up on the roof .. adding more panels at that time is cheaper than adding later.  Getting a bigger inverter at install is incremental cost, getting it later typically needs a whole new inverter.  I had two suppliers saying I could only have 4kw but in reality its easy to get 9kw.  4kw does not need any pre-approval paperwork .. 9kw needs an approval from the distribution company (DNO) which is a simple form and in most cases its approved - just takes a few weeks longer to get the approval.   Think about your power needs for the next 10 years ... electric car, aircon with increasing temperatures and decide if 4kw is enough ...  

snigehere

LeeU said:

I have 8.6kWp of panels, 10kWh of batteries, I'm currently using Octopus' std tariff and use their Agile Export tariff.
Solar panels on their own are not worth it in my eyes, you need the batteries to help make the most out of the electricity you produce.

I don't think its as simple a decision as you suggest.  

Deciding to use a battery system really depends on your personal circumstances and energy management.  To get the most from a system without batteries you need to move the big consumption to the day time - dishwasher, washing machine, tumble drier etc etc - If you are not at home in the daytime then you have to use some technology to enable that automation such as smart plugs to turn things on.

If you cook with electricity in the evening then in the summertime it can be from solar but in the winter, without battery, its going to be grid.

I work from home so its easy to kick the equipment into life manually ... I have an 8kw system with 45% east facing and 55% west .. since March 22nd I have saved £590 from my electricity bill .. I am looking at around 8 to 9 year return on investment so not too shabby. 

But ... if I were not at home then I would have to sort out some smart plugs to turn things on at the right time or invest in a battery system .. but battery is another chunk of money with its own return in investment timescale.

I believe that battery systems are overpriced at the moment due to constraints on battery supplies.  The tesla powerwall system uses car batteries that fail testing for the car but there is not sufficient production of car batteries to drive down the cost of the powerwall.  I would expect that in 1 to 2 years the cost of the battery systems will fall as supply improves and performance increases. 

Joy_for_Liberty

Dear Martin,

With reference to your new article on solar panels I feel that you are being misled to consider that a trader being a member of certain named organisations means good work...not that you said it was a "guarantee".  I feel it's important for you to please urge the government to do a public review of the solar industry as I note that many are bullied to remove negative reviews from Trust Pilot and Trusted trader as I myself have been.  Others are under pressure and have publicly said they've refused bribes to give a 5 star when it was not forthcoming.  This below is my personal experience with a solar firm. This is a situation that is ongoing where the firm is suing me for the balance of the money despite I requesting them to remove the entire installation it if they had not put it right within the 14 days as per consumer law.

Police crime reference number HC20012022/0208
An electrical explosion occurred when their electrician was connecting up their installation causing total loss of electricity for over a day. The GRID unwired the solar wiring  from the mains having considered it unsafe and put in writing that the solar wiring was poor. We decided to have it removed as we don't want any further electrical explosions or a house fire as company insisted there was nothing wrong with their wiring despite what GRID stated. They smashed several roof tiles, consequently we've had rain down damage in upstairs bedroom due to smashed tiles. There is now cracking of upstairs internal walls under the solar panels. The loft door no longer closes.
The bedroom door under solar panels is twisted in its frame. Our flat roof is leaking with the solar panels on it despite they knowing it was old and unsuitable.(its against the industry's rules to place them on an unsuitable surface) - the surface was too old and thin and its been leaking. They urgently need to be removed by the company in order to replace the roof.
Consequently we now have rotting pine floor that was newly installed in 2011 under leaking flat roof.
They put scaffolding over our windows and fire escape window both preventing us from escaping in the event of a fire and depriving us of daylight for months and refused to remove it despite having a person with autism and suffering huge anxiety in the room with the fire escape.
The company is demanding thousands in compensation in order to remove their system despite it never having worked. They've kept my £2750 deposit already, I've had to pay masses on repair of smashed roof tiles and need to rectify the ongoing rot of my flat roof and the damage to my pitched roof. This has been going on nearly a year and they have failed to remove their installation so I can repair my pitched roof fully after them, replace the flat roof that has been steadily getting worse and remedy the other things damaged. I would never recommend this company. If you have difficulty with this company report to the police immediately getting yourself a crime reference number and also quote my crime reference number so a dossier on them can be speedily built up. Perhaps a class law suit will remedy things for everyone who have been affected by this company is the way forward. They have made various threats and demands against me to try to intimidate me into removing the feedback.  The RECC code is great but when a trader violates it the RECC I found were useless.  They said they would arrange mediation but after months decided not to give mediation.  They do NOT enforce their code and leave it up to the victim of the solar trader to deal with it via the courts.  NAPIT was worthless also. It appears to be privately owned where its in their financial interest to let its members do whatever they want as long as they keep paying membership fees to it. They said they would not intervene unless the system was wired up and working.  But, when the system had already caused an electrical explosion where there was a big puff of smoke and my walls have now got cracks and doors are visibly twisted in their frames etc the sensible thing is to remove the system which has faults causing it to make an elecrical explosion and there is visible damage to my home.  Serious change and answerability needs to be brought in.  There have been many fires which are caused by solar panels and faulty electrics appear to be the cause of many.  This entire industry needs a government review.