Official MSE Free Solar Panel guide discussion

FullFatCoke

SunEdison
I've just had an offer of 3p/kWh (currently paying 12p/kWh with nPower) from SunEdison.
Free installation, free insurance - with a 20year contract.
The price appears to be index linked (but not clear in the document to what [index] exactly.
I use an awful lot of electricity (about twice the average) - so it looks like a decent deal.
Anyone have experience with SunEdison ?

System

FullFatCoke wrote: »

SunEdison
I've just had an offer of 3p/kWh (currently paying 12p/kWh with nPower) from SunEdison.
Free installation, free insurance - with a 20year contract.
The price appears to be index linked (but not clear in the document to what [index] exactly.
I use an awful lot of electricity (about twice the average) - so it looks like a decent deal.
Anyone have experience with SunEdison ?

Read the small print very carefully. Edisun claims a first year saving of 15% in the first year. They are not offering to provide all your electricity at 3p/kWh. As the Govt is now proposing a 90% reduction in feed in tariffs, I would not expect this offer to remain on the table for much longer. Looking at my electricity bill, it would save me about £45 in the first year.

Edit: previous discussion about this on another thread. Note that the annual RPI/CPI increase appears to be on the 17.36p/kWh price for every unit that you consume from the roof. This suggests to me that the 15% saving in year 1, will be less in year 2, less in year 3 etc.

I am happy end day I have not had to shell out 6 to 8 grand for a system I am happy with that its all about whats good for you.

• Duration: 20 years
• Gross Payment: 17.36p/kWh the system produces
• Deductions*: 11.63p/kWh for the FiT
2.43p/kWh for the Export Tariff
• Net Payment**: 3.31p + VAT for every kWh the system produces
• Gross rate escalator/year: 3.5%
• System size: 3.99 kWh
• Energy Production Year 1: 3,697 kWh
• Performance Guarantee: 90%

£10,074.17 is approx what I will save at Electric going up at 8% a year.

50Twuncle

Could someone explain to me why the government keeps on cutting the earnings from solar panels - at this time of future energy shortages ?

Cardew

50Twuncle wrote: »

Could someone explain to me why the government keeps on cutting the earnings from solar panels - at this time of future energy shortages ?

Because those earnings(i.e. subsidies) are paid for by all electricity consumers, not the Government. Thus, for instance, OAPs in an all electric council flat are paying money so that better off house owners or Rent a Roof companies can make a profit.


The second reason is that solar generation is generally unreliable as it depends on the weather and of course generates nothing at night.


The peak demand for electricity in UK is on a winter's evening when solar produces nothing/zilch. So we still have to have the conventional/nuclear power stations capable of generating sufficient to meet that demand. In short solar does nothing to reduce that generating capacity.


During the day when Solar is generating there is no shortage of generating capacity. Also you can't just shut down power stations just because the sun has popped out from behind a cloud and solar is suddenly generating.


The subsidies paid to encourage solar were nothing to do with economics but to meet the UK's legal commitment to produce renewable energy.

zeupater

50Twuncle wrote: »

Could someone explain to me why the government keeps on cutting the earnings from solar panels - at this time of future energy shortages ?

Hi 50Twuncle

Alternatively, and more realistically ....

FiT's on pv were introduced to support the development of a new industry, encouraging a level of competition and manufacturing economies of scale to drive prices downwards. The tariff bands were originally set at a level when a UK 4kWp installation was around £20k+. Over the past 5(ish) years prices have reduced to ~£5k+ ... the FiT reductions simply reflect the lower prices and encourage installers to remain competitive through maintaining a rate of return for their customers. The total support from FiTs over the contract period has fallen almost exactly in line with installed costs through the combination of falling tariffs and a reduction of the contract period from 25 to 20 years. There's currently a DECC consultation on seriously reducing the FiT scheme support to a level which could seriously damage the industry at this point in time, whereas a few more years of support with ongoing incremental reductions would probably be a better approach ...

HTH
Z

Martyn1981

50Twuncle wrote: »

Could someone explain to me why the government keeps on cutting the earnings from solar panels - at this time of future energy shortages ?

Basically, they've overspent on the renewables budget. The vast bulk of the money will go to off-shore wind, and these contracts (CfDs) have already been issued.

PV (and FiTs) actually account for very little money, but the government wants to balance the books fast. personally I think there is a little more to it as on-shore wind and large scale PV were also hacked at, as soon as their contracts (£80/MWh) fell below the contracts to be paid for the new fleet of nuclear reactors (£93/MWh), thus embarrassing the government.

I suspect that if the current domestic rate of ~15p (FiT + export) was cut to less than nuclear, then that too would be tricky to explain, especially when the new 35yr nuclear subsidies start, despite having already received 50 years of support already. A support figure for domestic PV today of 9.3p would be tough, but would still work well for well sited properties.

So it looks like the subsidies to be paid to households (FiTs) will be cut. The subsidies paid to medium sized companies (on-shore wind and PV farms) will be cut. The subsidies paid to the large energy companies for off-shore wind will remain. And the subsidies paid to a French/Chinese consortium for nuclear will remain.

So all energy consumers will still continue to fund the higher subsidies paid to the very largest companies, but not for smaller companies and households.

As Zeupater said, seeing domestic PV through to a subsidy free (or low subsidy) conclusion would make much better sense. FiTs is currently estimated to add about £7 to a household bill, and a sensible scheduled reduction of the subsidy over the next five years is estimated to only require a further £1 to £2.

On a brighter note, PV costs are still falling. There are a lot of further reductions expected, and prices outside the EU are already 25% lower than inside (due to a minimum price rule we have to protect us (Germany) from cheaper competition). So over the next 10 years PV should be able to make a comeback in the UK, even without subsidies, but it will depend on how much damage the industry suffers, and the additional costs from having to train new staff once again.

Mart.

Cardew

This thread, and the question posed, is about solar

Yet Nuclear is introduced time and again as a distraction.


Nuclear of course generates 24/7 in all weathers.

Martyn1981

Cardew wrote: »

This thread, and the question posed, is about solar

Yet Nuclear is introduced time and again as a distraction.


Nuclear of course generates 24/7 in all weathers.

Actually you raised the issue of nuclear:

Cardew wrote: »

So we still have to have the conventional/nuclear power stations capable of generating sufficient to meet that demand.

I was simply putting this issue into context, and pointing out that all of our energy generation is currently subsidised in one way or another, however, unlike nuclear (for example) the FiT subsidy is the only one that is distributed back to the demand side (smaller companies and households).

Also, unlike nuclear which is about to receive a second half century of subsidies (as the first 50 years weren't enough) the PV FiT subsidy has fallen massively, in a very short time period, and could easily be reduced now below that of nuclear, and be steadily phased out by the early 2020's ..... interestingly, before the new 35yr nuclear subsidies begin in ~2025.

Without context, it's easy for the critics of PV, who often support nuclear;) to spin a negative on the relatively tiny FiT subsidies.

Mart.

Terotech1

I paid £6,400 for a 12 panel installation in 2014 and have been generating ever since. My Energy Provider, British Gas have refused to pay me ANY feed-in tariff, so I am at a loss of £6,400 plus any payback for generation. I am now about to switch off the panels at the isolation switch, have them removed, and see if anyone wants them [including the associated meters etc]
My advice to any prospective solar installer is......DON'T!
Ian Colley.

zeupater

Terotech1 wrote: »

I paid £6,400 for a 12 panel installation in 2014 and have been generating ever since. My Energy Provider, British Gas have refused to pay me ANY feed-in tariff, so I am at a loss of £6,400 plus any payback for generation. I am now about to switch off the panels at the isolation switch, have them removed, and see if anyone wants them [including the associated meters etc]
My advice to any prospective solar installer is......DON'T!
Ian Colley.

Hi Ian

Probably not the best thread title to to raise this under ... if you'd like to start a separate thread on the 'Green & Ethical' board and provide more detail then maybe someone would be able to provide some helpful advice ....

HTH
Z