Unpaid Overtime - Not a lot, but enough!

SteveClarkson_2

Hello all,

I started a new job almost 2 years ago now - and am expected to do an additional half hour to cover the phones 2-3 evenings a week.

Initially, I didn't mind this, it isn't very long after all, but more recently, I have discovered that other departments in my company are being paid for their additional half-hours here and there. I, however, am not.

I haven't raised this with anyone yet, I wanted to see what others thoughts were first. With an online calculator, I have worked out that I am missing out on about £12 a week - which is enough to fund my sandwiches for the week, if nothing else!

My main problems with approaching anyone are:

1. It is over such a small amount of time
2. The 3 other people in my department do these same additional half-hours too, and have done for longer than me without complaining (I should also add they all earn a lot more than me though!)
They also come in earlier than me - which makes me feel like a little whiner - but I can't help but think of an additional £12 a week as being a very good thing!

So - MoneySavers - what are your thoughts?


Thanks!

Steve

Savvy_Sue

I don't know, but I think I would start by asking your colleagues who don't get the paid overtime if they know why other depts do get paid overtime, and see if there is a good reason. If not, why not together ask about it?

Also if they come in earlier than you, presumably that's either their choice or their contract ... so irrelevant!

SteveClarkson_2

Thank you for your reply!

I have spoken to those who DO get the extra pay before, and they were permitted the extra by a high-level chap years and years ago - I am assuming our dept has just never asked!

The thing that worries me is that my contract states that I work from 9 to 5, mon to fri, but they have that magical line in it, something which basically implies those hours may change if business need dictates - but it DOESN'T say whether or not I will be paid for any extra time.

Although you are right about the others in my dept, they do come in early out of choice (mad, crazy fools!), but it doesn't put me in a brilliant position, if they seem to bloomin' willing to give up their lives!

Oh the quandries of life!

timbellina

We all do unpaid overtime from time to time. It's one of those things that happens. But this isn't a casual, occasional thing. This is a company quite simply asking you to work for 40 hours and be paid for only 38 (or whatever).

From your original post, you knew that was the case when you took the job on; and if that's so, then I don't honestly see how you can complain now.

I quite understand that it seems unfair that other departments get paid their casual overtime, but it also seems to me that the only result of making a fuss about this would be for them to lose their entitlement - you knew when you signed up that this was the way it was to be.

If you don't think you should work 40 hours and be paid for 38, then I'd check your contract of employment. Does it say "plus additional hours, unpaid, as and when required"? Or some such - I somehow doubt it.

Personally, I don't really think it's ever on for a company to abuse it's staff in this way - "the labourer is worthy of his hire" - if the company needs you to work for 40 hours, it should pay you to work those 40 hours.

Maybe I'm wrong - but if you're bugged by this, then perhaps you should look around for another job. It's hard to see how you can change this without losing your friends in the workplace; and this sort of thing, once started, eats away at you until you get away from it. You're best off taking that decision early on, not letting it drag out for months or years.

I once went through a whole string of interviews lasting weeks, to be offered a nice job with a nice car. Almost the last thing said to me was "By the way - everyone in this factory works Saturday mornings". "Why?" I asked "I can do my job quite adequately in the 37 hours allotted to me". "Solidarity", said the employer; "if the lads in the factory have to work Saturdays, so do we". And he was right. It was the only fair thing to do - and I wrote him ever such a nice letter of rejection.

Put simply - if I'd have accepted, I'd have been stuck doing Saturday's forever and a day. And I'd have had no comeback; and eventually, I'd have left; after losing I don't know how many Saturday mornings with my wife. The right decision was not to take the job. If you're really bugged by this, then the right decision is probably to find a company where "occasional" means exactly that.

Tim

Conor_3

Speak for yourself Timbenella. I've never done so much as a minutes unpaid overtime. No pay = no play.

People who do unpaid overtime are mugs and it is precisely because so many are prepared to roll over and accept it "as part of the job" that employers think they can get away with it.

Easyt way to raise it. At clocking off time, go home. Don't work the extra half hour. When they call you in about it, tell them that you're not being paid.

When they then bang on about it, point out the Minimum Wage entitles you to a minimum of £5.35 FOR EVERY HOUR WORKED and by not paying you for these half hours, they're actually breaking the law.

CFC

Conor, there's a huge difference depending on what level you are in a company, and also whether you want to progress. Everyone can in effect do as they please - but the rusty cog which squeaks loudly and disappears at hometime can only do that if they are hourly paid and if they don't care about career progression.
Apart from anything else, anyone at a more than basic level in a company usually has 'needs of the business' written into their contract.

SteveC - your easiest and most pleasant route would be to speak to your manager and ask if it is possible to take the time you spend on the phones as 'lieu time' at the company's convenience. It's usually a lot easier to get a bit of lieu time than to get extra money....

bristol_pilot

Senior people don't have to 'cover the phones' in the evening. It is not fair - or legal - to make people at a basic level in the company work unpaid overtime. Is the OP in a union?

CFC

bristol_pilot wrote: »

Senior people don't have to 'cover the phones' in the evening. It is not fair - or legal - to make people at a basic level in the company work unpaid overtime. Is the OP in a union?

Seniority in a company depends on the job being done and the size of the company. For example a cleaner wouldn't be asked to man the phones or a factory hand, but an admin worker might well be asked to do so. An admin person is therefore at a more than basic level.

It actually is legal to make people work unpaid overtime. It is contractual also providing there is something referring to it in the contract. Needs of the business covers it. As to whehther that is fair, what has that got to do with it? Business doesn't care about fair.....it's one of the burdensof management, to balance the business needs with the needs of the staff. Business just cares about the bottom line...and what's legal. (and some businesses don't actually care about what's legal, they just care about whether they'll get caught...)

Even some hourly paid people have 'needs of the business' in their contract. If I didn't wish to pay my workers for a Saturday morning, I wouldn't have to. I can make them come into work and do overtime unpaid. But I wouldn't, because enlightened self interest tells me I'll have no staff in 6 months if I do that....

liney

I was always under the impression that this 'changing needs of the business' ment that your hours could be changed with notice, and that you might be expected to stay over in an emergency.

If you want your staff to work extra hours regularly you have to pay them. I doubt a company would get very far at a tribunal with the response 'We sacked him because he refused to work over, but actually no, we weren't paying him'

I would find out when your CAB has a free legal consult and have a chat. Take your contract with you too.

SteveClarkson_2

Thanks for all the advice - I thought I might try at the CAB.

I think at the end of the day, all I can do is ask nicely - and see if maybe they would be willing!

Rather than trying to get them to actually fork out more money though - I thought it might be better to push for coming in 1/2 hour later, or maybe have a longer lunchbreak to make up for it - that way, they wouldn't have to fork out anything extra, but I would still feel like I was vaguely appreciated!

Thanks for all your help everyone! If anything exciting happens, I will post an update!

CFC

liney wrote: »

I was always under the impression that this 'changing needs of the business' ment that your hours could be changed with notice, and that you might be expected to stay over in an emergency.

If you want your staff to work extra hours regularly you have to pay them. I doubt a company would get very far at a tribunal with the response 'We sacked him because he refused to work over, but actually no, we weren't paying him'

I would find out when your CAB has a free legal consult and have a chat. Take your contract with you too.

You don't have to pay them. It all depends on what their individual contract says. There is no blanket rule, one needs to look at the individual contract. In any case, one would not be terminating on the grounds of 'refusing to stay beyond home time', it would be on 'failure to adhere to a reasonable management request'. It would then be for an Employment Tribunal to decide whether their consensus was that it was in fact a reasonable request, taking all the circumstances into account, if the employee went down the ET route. There is less protection in the law for most things than most people think there is......but by the time you got to that point anyway, you could forget having a career in that company.

Steve's taking a wise step - he's looking to see if there is a mutually agreeable solution, as he's not happy with the current set up. If you want any kind of career, those are the kind of steps you need to take.