advice on bicycle and car accident

Strider590

Johno100 wrote: »

You sound like one of the minority of cycling lycra louts, who play the put upon victim at every opportunity. I bet you refuse to wear a helmet as well on a point of principle?

What ARE you talking about?

I've never seen a lycra clad cyclist without a helmet and i'm not one of either (I actually drive 90% of the time), i'm not playing the victim, i'm just a realist. I see things for what they are, free from the constraints of social/peer pressure and idle gossip.

All the time I hear drivers come out with the same old BS when talking about cyclists, most of it never witnessed and nothing more than gossip/hearsay (something I REALLY cannot stand).

If I dislike someone, I have my own reasons, I don't adopt somebody else's.

Cycrow

Johno100 wrote: »

No, if you deliberately attack a cyclist with a car you will face assault, GBH, attempted murder or murder charges, depending on how successful you are. An accidental collision, which we are talking about here, is a different matter.

i wish that were true.

i've been deliberately run over before and the police did absolutely nothing

Idiophreak

Cycrow wrote: »

i wish that were true.

i've been deliberately run over before and the police did absolutely nothing

Indeed. Several times I've had cars deliberately swerve at me, force me off the road...In fact, I once had a bus do it...all on CCTV, bus company acknowledged it had taken place and took "appropriate action" (I read that as "threw my letter in the bin"), but the police really didn't give a hoot.

As far as I'm concerned, trying to drive your car over someone *is* attempted murder, whether they're on a bike or not...but the law just doesn't see it the same way.

Even if they were interested enough to do something, they'd probably look at a charge of dangerous driving, which wouldn't stick, so it would be reduced to careless driving and they'd get a £50 fine or something when found guilty in court.

There's a thread on here somewhere with countless examples of people who've injured or killed cyclists and got off completely free or with the most insulting of punishments.

Out of interest, Johno, can you point to a single case where someone's been convicted of attempted murder for trying to hit a bike with their car?

Johno100

Idiophreak wrote: »

Out of interest, Johno, can you point to a single case where someone's been convicted of attempted murder for trying to hit a bike with their car?

GBH and Dangerous Driving

http://www.theweek.co.uk/crime/cycling/45432/bus-driver-who-deliberately-ran-over-cyclist-jailed-17-months

Wounding with Intent

http://road.cc/content/news/48082-nine-and-half-years-driver-who-aimed-car-cyclist-oxford

Murder Charge (pending case)

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/08/16/man_has_manslaughter_charge_upgraded_to_murder_over_twitter_boasts.html

Idiophreak

Johno100 wrote: »

GBH and Dangerous Driving

http://www.theweek.co.uk/crime/cycling/45432/bus-driver-who-deliberately-ran-over-cyclist-jailed-17-months

Wounding with Intent

http://road.cc/content/news/48082-nine-and-half-years-driver-who-aimed-car-cyclist-oxford

Murder Charge (pending case)

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/08/16/man_has_manslaughter_charge_upgraded_to_murder_over_twitter_boasts.html

So that's a no?

The bus driver who got 17 months. I wonder if he'd have got the same if he'd hit the cyclist with a gun, rather than a bus.

The guy in Oxford actually knew his victim and made a premeditated attempt to kill him...and they still couldn't make attempted murder stick.

I'll follow the American case - I wonder if they're any better at making stuff stick on the other side of the pond.

Strider590

Johno100 wrote: »

GBH and Dangerous Driving

http://www.theweek.co.uk/crime/cycling/45432/bus-driver-who-deliberately-ran-over-cyclist-jailed-17-months

Wounding with Intent

http://road.cc/content/news/48082-nine-and-half-years-driver-who-aimed-car-cyclist-oxford

Murder Charge (pending case)

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/08/16/man_has_manslaughter_charge_upgraded_to_murder_over_twitter_boasts.html

First one went massively public/viral, it was only because of the scale of complaints and petitioning that this was prosecuted. If not for the CCTV, the driver would have walked free.

Second one, the guy did a runner AND more importantly he specifically targeted a person, not just a cyclist.

Third is in the US and whilst attitudes over there are similar, the law is not.

Aretnap

Idiophreak wrote: »

Out of interest, Johno, can you point to a single case where someone's been convicted of attempted murder for trying to hit a bike with their car?

Why cyclists in particular? It's no different to deliberately hitting anyone else with your car.

Attempted murder requires specific intent to kill. Intent to cause serious injury is not sufficient, nor is the fact that death was a possible, or even a likely outcome of the act. So it's a very difficult charge to prove - more difficult than murder in many ways. I'd be surprised if there were many cases of motorists being prosecuted for attempted murder, even for deliberately running people down - too hard to prove specific intent. There do seem to be a few though 1 2 3.

Idiophreak

Aretnap wrote: »

Why cyclists in particular?

Because Johno said "if you deliberately attack a cyclist with a car you will face assault, GBH, attempted murder or murder charges"

Aretnap

Strider590 wrote: »

Incidents should be punished, leaving them unpunished allows dangerous drivers to abuse others with impunity.

That's certainly a reasonable argument, but one which has nothing to do with cyclists being a persecuted minority. It can equally be applied to dangerous drivers who cause car/car accidents, or who drive into walls. Those often don't result in prosecution either.

There's a case to be made that incidents involving cyclists should be taken more seriously as the risk of death or injury is higher, and drivers should certainly expect consequences if they don't give us enough space etc, fair enough. But there's a big difference between "the police should make extra allowances for the fact that we're more vulnerable, not treat us in much the same way as other road users" and "we're persecuted and have no rights at all" I only agree with one of those statements.

Norman_Castle

bailey23 wrote: »

A friend had an accident whilst on his bicycle, he was hit during march this year by a driver swerving to avoid slush in the road. Whilst he was not injured the bike had to be scrapped. It was reported to the police and the driver also visited them to explain what happened and it was dropped.
Last month his mother, as he was 17 at the time, received a letter from his insurance company claiming for damage to a wing mirror £1400. Today the police have sent a letter saying that they weren't going to prosecute anybody and it was going to be filed away.
Does anybody know what to do about the claim for money. As it was a bicycle there is no insurance on it nor was he at fault in the first place.

Thanks.

To be liable to pay the insurers are presuming the cyclist is at fault. Did the police state who they thought was at fault?. Find a cycle friendly claim company and put in a claim for the bike and any other damages.