Power of Attorney - bank refuse to recognise

Judy_Judy

It's a long story but I'll be as brief as I can. I've been mum's POA for 20 years and her only carer during that time. Mum has senile and vascular dimentia diagnosed 18 months ago. Power of Attorney then registered with the Office of the Public Guardian as capacity was being lost

For the past 5 years a brother has waited for her to save up a little bit of money, £4k then £2k's three times over. When Mum had capacity, I didn't like it much but I kept quiet. When Mum got dementia, hallucinating, confused and more importantly needed her home adapted so she could continue to live in it, my brother came back for another £2k. I told him to stop (he was using her card with her permission) Mum needed her cash. He came back again and was withdrawing £250 a day on the card.

I reduced the facility to £50 to slow him down, his wife says he has a gambling problem. Mum was angry as he'd fed her a sob story as to why he needed all her savings again.

Brother took Mum to the bank, told Mum to tell the bank to remove me as POA, then he withdrew her last £1,000.

The bank have removed me as PoA (Mum gives complete strangers her bank details at the door if they say they are collecting for charity). I now can't protect her. It was my understanding that she put the PoA in place 20 years ago when she was well so that it could be used if she got ill. Now that time has come the bank have removed the PoA and won't recognise it.

My questions are: Can the bank remove a registered Power of Attorney without making any referrals to the Court of Protection or even asking her GP what her mental capacity is. Does a bank clerk really have this power?


If as I suspect they don't have that power, (they're just bank workers not mental capacity assessors).


Are they responsible for the £1,000 my brother has taken from the poor vulnerable woman because it was removed after they've removed me as PoA and I can't do a damned thing about it.

After last years £2k removal he took his family on holiday and left mum with nothing. This all feels so wrong, can anyone help to advise me as I don't have the funds for solicitors. What's the point of appointing a PoA if the bank won't let you use it when a woman with dementia is losing her life savings? Not much I know but she needs it for her.

(Judy is not my real name so keep myself totally anonymous)

Macca83_2

In cases of dementia you can remove a person's banking facilities, things like bank cards and cheque books. The attorney can retain their facilities in order to run the donors financial affairs. If you get a bank with good staff they're also more than willing to phone you if the donor is attempting to with draw large volumes of cash. I know this doesn't help you now but it may be something to consider in the future.

You need to get back down to the bank with the original poa and explain the situation to them. They need to put it back on the system. The legal side of returning the money I'm afraid I'm not too sure on.

Errata

Is the bank aware you have POA? Has the bank had sight of the documentation and recorded it on your mother's bank account record(s)?

Judy_Judy

Thanks for your reply Macca, I've been back to the bank and they've refused point blank, they say they are right to refuse to recognise a registered Power of Attorney, I've called the Court of Protection they say the bank is absolutely wrong.

So as it stands it's an impass and meanwhile my poor old mum is so vulnerable. This lady forgets how to use a tin opener, how to put the television on yet the bank say she has capacity. I just don't understand how a bank can make decisions like that on a snapshot.

Judy_Judy

Hi Erratta, yes it was with the bank I've used it for 20 years, when it was registered I took it to the bank to show them the Office of the Public Guardian were aware that mum's mental health was deteriorating. Mum's been physically unwell so I've done a lot for her using the PoA without anyone ever making any complaint about me.

The bank took it off on my mum's instruction, so my brother could take her money without me knowing. The bank say they can the Court of Protection say they can't.

Gigglepig

Judy, I am so sorry to hear about this. you must be heartbroken, both regarding your mum and your brother.

Can you get free legal advice/afford a solicitor's letter formally requesting the bank to correct their error and reinstate the amount?

Have you spoken to a charity for elderly or people with dementia? The may know what to do, and be able to give some support.

If none of the above works, perhaps CAB?,

susancs

You really need to contact the Office of Public Guardianship regarding this. I wonder if your mother also had your brother as one of the people with enduring power of attorney and that is how he managed to obtain her money, as my understanding is that you can have more than one POA appointed. Just a thought but the Office of Public Guardianship is responsible for investigating any complaints.

susancs

Sorry whilst I was typing I realise you have been in touch with the Office of Public Guardianship. I would use the banks official complaints procedure to make a complaint and threaten to escalate it fruther to the independant body that overseas finacial affarirs.

nom_de_plume

I would also go to the bank and INSIST they put, in writing, the reasons behind their actions. Ask them to explain why they did not consult you before removing you from the account. If nothing else, this may focus their thinking somewhat.
As for the cash 'lost' by your mother by their rash behaviour and from your description, my gut feeling is they should be held responsible and made to pay it back .

Perhaps these guys would be a good starting point - http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/

Judy_Judy

SUSAN: Thankfully my brother doesn't have POA, if mum wanted to add anyone now the Office of the Public Guardian say they'd have to notify me. Mum wouldn't pass the mental capacity tests so that's safe.

My sister did try to get it after a 30 year absence, very sick mum and she returns hey ho! She'd got mum to sign the papers to allow her internet access to her account. She had to stop when she realised it was "domestic fraud" and the OoTPG wouldn't look kindly on her application. You'd think mum was loaded!

Nom de plume getting a written explanation is key because if I have to go the the court of protection to resolve this it will be evidence. I should have done that before.

Gigglepig: Solicitors are too expensive but I will get in touch with the Alzheimer's Society and yes it's heartbreaking. It's not mum's fault, it's dementia's fault, I hope it's the bank's fault and the fault of those who take advantage of vulnerable people.

This is such a helpful site - thanks.

rpc

Did the bank know that the PoA had been registered? They could get in bother if they let someone they knew to lack mental capacity.

Follow their formal complaints procedure, referring to the Ombudsman if necessary. In the complaint, I would point out that she has dementia, has lost capacity, made that withdrawal under duress and seek redress from the bank (in addition to requiring that they recognise you as attorney).

As soon as you have access, move the account and don't let brother have access. If mum has truly lost capacity herself then do not let her access her own account (it would be held in her name, but with controls placed on it). If it is not in mum's best interests for your brother to be given this money then you should stop it.

It is between the donor, the attorney and the OPG who is an attorney. Organisations don't get a say.