Another Excel PCN..

Bannister_Sliding

Hi there,

I have just received a PCN from Excel for parking in Cavendish Retail Park, Keighley without buying a ticket. We had two cars full of people and not one noticed that you needed to buy a ticket. (The other driver has not received a ticket as yet) It says we came and left in exactly 20 minutes. I have no idea what the period of grace is, whether we were that amount of time or how clear the signs are or if they conform to regulations as we live nowhere near there so can't check. (I've looked on google steetview but can't ascertain how clear the sign is, although I can see a sign at the entrance) The charge is only £40, however people pn other threads have mentioned about whether the notice was sent within 14 days. It wasn't. 26 days have passed between date it occurred and issue date of notice. 29 days between date it occurred and date notice received. Do I still just send the template letter provided elsewhere stating I do not accept liaibility? Also, If I do this and POPLA reject the appeal will I then have to pay a higher amount than the initial £40 fee offered now?

Many Thanks in advance

Coupon-mad

Bannister_Sliding wrote: »

Hi there,

I have just received a PCN from Excel for parking in Cavendish Retail Park, Keighley without buying a ticket. We had two cars full of people and not one noticed that you needed to buy a ticket. (The other driver has not received a ticket as yet) It says we came and left in exactly 20 minutes. I have no idea what the period of grace is, whether we were that amount of time or how clear the signs are or if they conform to regulations as we live nowhere near there so can't check. (I've looked on google steetview but can't ascertain how clear the sign is, although I can see a sign at the entrance) The charge is only £40, however people pn other threads have mentioned about whether the notice was sent within 14 days. It wasn't. 26 days have passed between date it occurred and issue date of notice. 29 days between date it occurred and date notice received. Do I still just send the template letter provided elsewhere stating I do not accept liaibility? Also, If I do this and POPLA reject the appeal will I then have to pay a higher amount than the initial £40 fee offered now?

Many Thanks in advance

No you don't use the (no longer used) short appeal denying liability because PPCs are not sending a POPLA code when they get that. You need a fuller challenge which you would find if you simply read current threads on the first few pages; do not read cases from weeks and weeks ago.

Here you go:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4613765

Send an email of complaint to the BPA and DVLA as shown on that thread and ALSO put together a challenge to Excel, incorporating the same valid challenge point, like in this example, in the style of post #8 by pepipoo expert, Broadsword. Just amend it to suit the actual flaws in 'your' Notice (I suspect it's more than just a late Notice to Keeper as you will find when you check it further!):

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=81182

Here is a checklist about 'Notice to Keeper' letters (which have to be headed up with those 3 words only, or 'parking charge notice'):

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability/

HTH and read up on Excel threads POPLA appeals (read any in the first dozen or so pages of the parking forum) because POPLA is stage two and will be different than this first challenge. You never know, Excel might just cancel it when they see you mean business! If not then they HAVE to send you a POPLA code when rejecting an appeal so don't accept any rubbish sneaky response pretending they 'have' to know who the driver was. They do not!

And you won't be paying ANYTHING as long as you do the appeals well - so get your eyes off that '£40 discount bargain' (NOT)!

Happy reading of other threads about Excel and POPLA, and let us know what the DVLA and BPA respond with, as well as Excel.

Bannister_Sliding

Thank you for getting back to me Coupon-mad! I have drafted a wordy reply using the PoFA and BPA's code of conduct. It has been therapeutic if nothing else! I presume they don't change the wording on these notices to conform with PoFA as it dupes many keepers into paying straight away.. I really can't understand how they have BPA status!
If anyone fancies having a read through it for me I will e-mail it but don't want to put it all up here. Spies isn't there!
Thank you!

Kite2010

They have BPA status as the BPA is a toothless dog out to protect its members whatever they do.

They sometimes kick out members for serious breaches (like not paying their membership fee).

Coupon-mad

Bannister_Sliding wrote: »

Thank you for getting back to me Coupon-mad! I have drafted a wordy reply using the PoFA and BPA's code of conduct. It has been therapeutic if nothing else! I presume they don't change the wording on these notices to conform with PoFA as it dupes many keepers into paying straight away.. I really can't understand how they have BPA status!
If anyone fancies having a read through it for me I will e-mail it but don't want to put it all up here. Spies isn't there!
Thank you!

You only really need us to check your draft appeal at POPLA stage.

Did you also simply email the 2 email addresses shown in the first link I gave to report Excel's non-compliance as well? Or are you waiting to see if they send their usual template 'silly fob-off' reply without a POPLA code pretending you 'have to' name the driver to appeal?! Waiting for that would be a good plan too as long as you do send the complaints at some point!

Bannister_Sliding

Right ok. I'll holler back then when I get a reply..or when I get the POPLA code. Going to e-mail it today. Fully expecting a knock back of course.

Yeah, I'm waiting to see what happens next and hopefully leaving enough room for them to trip themselves up some more with which to bulk up my armour..

Bannister_Sliding

Quick update. I have received a reply saying that they were aware that they had not met the deadlines required under PoFA at the time and were pursuing recovery via a non-POFA route. They have then said that in order to correctly and fully respond to my challenge I have to confirm the copy of the PCN they sent is the same as the one I got. (As there was no mention of PoFA). Which there isn't but plenty of mention of the registered keeper being liable. Seems like they're buying time to me as it was 35 days between me challenging and them issuing this letter (37 days for me to receive it)! BPA CoP says they should give a decision to an appeal within 35 days!

Anyway, will be replying. If anyone has anything they think I should include in my reply please let me know. Otherwise I'll just keep you updated

Stroma

They cannot pick and choose what they are going to abide by this week, they must comply fully with every word of pofa 2012 and the bpa code of practice! They got keeper details by saying and agreeing to comply with pofa 2012.

Send complaints to the bpa and dvla, enclose your letter from them, ask them both why this parking company is disregarding the act, so what are they going to do about this unlawful action

aos@britishparking.co.uk
cc in the same email
foi@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

Bannister_Sliding

Thank you Stroma. You have confirmed what I'd just started to wonder as I began writing my reply to them. PoFA says it is for the recovery of unpaid parking charges:

1(1)This Schedule applies where—
(a)the driver of a vehicle is required by virtue of a relevant obligation to pay parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on relevant land; and
(b)those charges have not been paid in full.

Therefore is for when pursuing the driver OR keeper isn't it..
It seems they are purposefully being vague and wishy washy with their wording so you don't really know what they are doing or who they are pursuing you as, the driver or the keeper.

Bannister_Sliding

Hi all,


I have now received my lengthy rejection letter and POLA code, in which they have kindly informed me that the original PCN they sent had incorrectly stated that the full charge is £60, it is actually £100 (reduced to £40 for early payment). They also make several other points...They are pursuing me as the keeper outside of PoFA for a breach of T&C's, they won't provide a copy of the contract with the landowner to me or pre-estimate of their losses in ensuring compliance but will do to POPLA. Copies of the signs they say are there have been provided. I noted that the parking charge for the time the car was there (20mins) would have been 50p. As if anyone in their right mind would risk a fine for 50p!!


Is anyone able to assist with a POPLA appeal?


I have already complained to DVLA and BPA and am awaiting a response which I will chase soon. I have not yet complained to the shop managers serviced by the car park but plan to in due time!


Any help greatly appreciated! I'm so angry with them I'll take it as far as I can!

Redx

there are several templates and threads showing the basis of popla appeals on here , I have even used them myself in order to make appeals against 2 companies recently

so my advice is read through some of the threads and copy and paste from them into a word or wordpad document on your pc or laptop

once you have done this, change it to reflect your circumstances and then post a redacted copy on here to be checked over by those better informed than we are

once you get the correct basis of a popla appeal using the standard and varied reasons like authority to act , contracts , no gpeol etc etc you will then only have to tweak it and then email or post it off , wait a long time for a decision date and hopefully and probably win your popla appeal

you were also asked to do this in post #5 once you got to the POPLA stage

so dont get mad , get even , costing them money in the process