Benefit fraud advice

lukenobrains

Hi... I don't know if I'm in the correct place for this... If not, could a mod please correctly relocate it.. Thanks.

But I'm looking for a little advice.

Over 5 years ago my mother got divorced from her ex husband.
Part of the divorce agreement was that She left all 3 of their 3 properties to him, he had 6 months to remove her from the mortgage and clear her debt (which was caused by buying £15,000 of furniture, she also left to him).
After this she went on fending for herself, she works full time for our local council, coming out with around £900 a month (after tax). Living in our area is quite expensive, so she was on housing benefit, and family tax credit for my younger sister (even though, I still had to loan her money every now and then to put food on the table).
She told the local council everything and they said it was okay, and gave her the benefits.
Since the divorce, my mother has had to move every 12 months or so as the cost of living keeps going up, her wages dont...
However around 3 months ago she recieved a letter accusing her of benefit fraud, as she's been claiming housing benefit whilst owning a house. It turns out that her ex husband, has NOT held up any of his ends to the divorce, the £15,000 debt it still over my mothers head, she is still on the mortgage and now the council want £15,000 of benefits back. She has been through numerous interviews at the council, all taped for court and everything, and at the end of the most recent one, after the tape was stopped, my mother asked her interviewer if he believed she had committed fraud on purpose, his answer was no.

It is her honest belief that she relinquished her right to the property in the divorce, it was wrote down and therefore is a legal document stating that she has no legal or moral right to the property (even though the mortgage people would come to her for the money should Charlie stop paying, however at this point she would just tell them to sell.)

She has a court hearing at the end of this month, she has been trying to claim legal aid, however they keep coming up with different reasons why they cannot help her, despite the solicitor that my mother has been in touch with actually wanting to fight her battle. She has been advised to plead not guilty by said solicitor, however without being granted legal aid, my mother will be stood in the court room alone, not knowing what to do or say.

She's a 50 year old woman who has worked hard all her life, she doesn't deserve this. At this age she doesn't need this sort of stress, that is causing her lack of sleep and depression.
Does anyone have any advice that I could pass on to her?

Thankyou all in advanced...


P.S, she wants to try and force Charlie (the ex husband) to sell the properties to get her name off, as he will be unable to re-mortgage them alone, and will not sell willingly.. Hence my mother has been living hand to mouth for the last 5 and half years.

My other half has also said, should she win the case (by some miracle if she's going to be stood up there alone) could she not counter sue the council for all the stress she has been put though?
Although I'd imagine if she did that she would loose her job, as she works for them. They have also stated should she loose the case, she is out of a job, with a criminal record.


Again, thanks in advance...

Luke

pmlindyloo

This all hinges on the fact that your mother's ex husband has not obeyed a court order.

This is your mother's defence that she has not committed fraud in her benefit claims.

Your Mum needs some legal advice as regards taking her ex husband to court for failing to comply with the court order.

Since she is not entitled to legal aid she needs to find some free advice.

CAB may be able to point her in the right direction and assist in how she defends her case as regards the benefit fraud.

Google for your nearest CAB and choose one that has a Welfare and Benefit specialist.

Has she still got the court papers detailing the order about the properties? Photocopies of these would be part of her defence.

clearingout

whilst it hinges on the fact that the ex husband was supposed to remove her from the mortgages, why didn't she check that it actually happened? If she did check, does she have any evidence of checking - e-mails or solicitor's letters or some kind of contact with her ex? If she understood the terms of the court order (and the OP says it was a Consent Order which would suggest she did), then how is 'he didn't do it and I didn't bother to pursue him' going to be an argument in court?

lukenobrains

She has copies of everything... The divorce, all paperwork claiming the benefits in the first place (including the letter stating she was still named on his house).

She intends on trying to get the court to make Charlie sell to get her off the mortgage... However it also looks like Charlie committed fraud (although it looks like he did it on purpose, when he claimed for benefits he only told the council he had 2 properties, he forgot about the house he had just built in his back garden and was renting out..?)

I believe she has been in touch with the CAB several times, they were the ones who advised her to apply for legal aid in the first place. The solicitors at the legal aid department are all confused as to why she is being refused, as she barely earns enough money to put food on the table, and anyone who has ever met her can quite clearly see that this is all one big mistake, she is innocent.

The 2 reasons she is being declined the aid are;

"That it is in the interests of justice for your representation to be funded and
That you are financially eligible for funding."

To me that sounds like they are saying she can afford to pay for her own lawyer?
Is she supposed to starve for the next month to do so?!

After the reasons stated on the letter it says she can appeal to the court because she believes they have made a mistake, the solicitor she has been speaking to is in court tomorrow and said she will try and sort it out.
She spoke to 2 solicitors today and they both said that she should be entitled to legal aid.

I don't really understand any of this... I'm just trying to relay any helpful information to you so that you might get an idea and be able to help offer my mother some advice...

Thanks
Luke

lukenobrains

clearingout wrote: »

whilst it hinges on the fact that the ex husband was supposed to remove her from the mortgages, why didn't she check that it actually happened? If she did check, does she have any evidence of checking - e-mails or solicitor's letters or some kind of contact with her ex? If she understood the terms of the court order (and the OP says it was a Consent Order which would suggest she did), then how is 'he didn't do it and I didn't bother to pursue him' going to be an argument in court?

She did keep checking up, she kept nagging etc..

However he is a builder, and during the recession he has been unable to remove her, Especially as the mortgage company will not allow him to re mortgage three properties by himself. He has his mother living in the largest of the properties with him, and the other 2 properties are rented out.

my mother is a very kind hearted person, she did not want to make the occupants of the 2 rented houses homeless, nor force my step-grandmother into moving again at the age of 80.


However due to Charlie not caring in the slightest that he has ruined my mothers life and he's possibly caused her to have a criminal record, she has decided enough is enough, as much as she likes the other people involved and that will be effected, she believes that nearly 6 years is long enough to struggle for other people to step all over you. That is why it's only now since the council have accused her of fraud, that she has decided to try and force him to sell up. He WILL not sell up willingly. Thus, she will be tied into the mortgage forever, if he had his way.

Jobseeeker

she really needs to get a solicitor, whether she has to pay for it or not, otherwise she will lose her job and not be eligible for any benefits with these 3 properties hanging over her.

"Especially as the mortgage company will not allow him to re mortgage three properties by himself"

ah so he did actually try to remove her from the mortgage but he was declined.

Caz3121

how much equity was there in the properties? she may fall foul of deprivation of capital if she intended just to sign away her share in the properties. How long has she been claiming means tested benefits?

Dunroamin

Looking on the bright side, presumably she has a share in 3 properties that she didn't realise that she had.

lukenobrains

At the time of divorce, the property was negative equity, however as he is refusing to sell the properties at the moment he is refusing to get them evaluated... But going by average property value in the street... There could be up to £100,000 in equity..

She started claiming benefits when she moved out of the marital home, as she was unable to afford rent on anywhere without them.



Yes he did try at the time of divorce, 5 and a half years ago... He has not tried since as he knows he will not be able to re mortgage.

benefitbaby

Benefit fraud only exists if someone dishonestly misrepresents their position or fails to disclose a material fact that they knew would affect benefit (Social Security Act s.111 and 112A).

With this in mind I fail to see how your mother can be guilty of benefit fraud, there was no intent and no dishonesty. Her name may be on the mortgage docs however she has no beneficial interest in the properties - this is proven by the decree absolute and financial conclusions as set out in the divorce which are legally binding.

Mum needs to ask her solicitor to challenge the validity of the legal aid refusal and/or ask her solicitor to represent her on a pro-bono (free) basis or refer her to someone who may be willing to do this.

FBaby

Just out of curiosity, how come he got to keep all the capital invested in the marriage? I assume if her name was on the mortgage, they were purchased together. What did she get out of it? Only the £15K debts? Surely, he had more to gain from the properties, even if at the time they were in negative equity (were they all?)

In any case, what a mess and I really feel for your mum. I have never thought that such a situation could arise, but it is easy how it could happen. All I could say is that your mum needs to make sure she presents ALL documents that can show that she had no choice but to find herself in the situation she was in and that she is no way benefited or had any mean to benefit from the capital. Good luck to her.