Moving to Periodic Tenancy - Rent Payment Schedule?

SerialRenter

Is the rent discount offered enough to cover the cost of the renewals?

I admire you sticking it to the letting agents like this, but if there's a discount on the table that's certainly a decent option. Is the 6 month term a problem or the 6 month upfront payment?

If not, proof of postage, off to the post office you go when its due

DragonQ

SerialRenter wrote: »

Is the rent discount offered enough to cover the cost of the renewals?

Probably but I'll also lose interest by paying in advance.

I might just ask the landlord to agree to me paying monthly without any further reference checking (the letting agent has already checked me twice costing me over £500). Maybe I can avoid the letting agent's referencing fees this way, and then move onto a monthly SPT after the next term.

SerialRenter wrote: »

I admire you sticking it to the letting agents like this, but if there's a discount on the table that's certainly a decent option. Is the 6 month term a problem or the 6 month upfront payment?

The term mainly. My income is secured for 3 months but I should get 6 months on top of that.

SerialRenter wrote: »

If not, proof of postage, off to the post office you go when its due

I am worried that the SPT won't be monthly because of this wording in the legislation:

The periodic tenancy referred to in subsection (2) above is one—
...
(d)under which the periods of the tenancy are the same as those for which rent was last payable under the fixed term tenancy

G_M

DragonQ wrote: »

OK I need some advice after I inadvertently got into a conversation with the letting agent.

They are adamant that the AST will not move onto a monthly SPT because it'd be based on the last payment, which was for 6 months.
They are wrong. When/how you pay does not affect or change the legal status of the tenancy. If you go into 6 months arrears, you still have the same tenancy agreement! If you pay 6 months in advance- likewise.
I pointed out that the agreement specifically says the rent is monthly and so that is the term
You are right
but they disagree.
they are wrong
They continually repeated the line that I have to either renew or move out because the tenancy will otherwise "just end".
They are wrong. If necessary, quote the Housing Act 1988
I asked if that meant I didn't have to pay rent any more since there'd be no more agreement (in a snide way) and they said "of course not".:T

It was made clear to me that the landlord really wants me to stay and they've even offered a rent reduction to re-sign but this'd require another up-front rent payment and, of course, tenancy renewal fees.
Your choice. Is the reduction in rent + security worth the cost of upfront payment+ fee + loss of flexibility?

Can I be absolutely sure that they are wrong about the SPT not being monthly?
Yes
I'll probably need to convince my landlord of this because obviously the letting agent is telling them (and me) differently.

Housing Act S5, para 3

3)The periodic tenancy referred to in
subsection (2) above is one—


(a)taking effect in possession immediately on the
coming to an end of the fixed term tenancy;

(b)deemed to have been granted by the person who was
the landlord under the fixed term tenancy immediately before it came to an end to the person who was then the tenant under that tenancy;

(c)under which the premises which are let are the same dwelling-house as was let under the fixed term tenancy;

(d)under which the periods of the tenancy are the same as those for which rent was last payable under the fixed term tenancy;
and

(e)under which, subject to the following provisions
of this Part of this Act, the other terms are the same as those of the fixed
term tenancy immediately before it came to an end, except that any term which makes provision for determination by the landlord or the tenant shall not have effect while the tenancy remains an assured tenancy.

I can see the argument the agents are putting forward:

You paid 6nmonths rent on day one, therefore your SPT is a 6monthly period.

However:

1) your contract states rent is £XX per month (not £YY per 6 months)

2) therefore your contractual obligation was to pay £XX pm

3) You made an informal agreement with the LL/agent, to pay 6 months rent in advance, which is more than you were legally obliged to


4) this informal agreement to pay more than required under the contract, does not alter the contract

(As a landlord, I can agree to re-paint the tenant's bedroom if they want me to. The fact that I agree to do this does not legally oblige me to re-paint all the other bedrooms too!)

jamie11

Hmm. This same poster is over on LLZ with the same question.

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?57823-Rent-paid-in-advance-SPT-period-length#post460436

My answers there concur with the answers here but a couple of the members seem to think it's a 6 monthly periodic tenancy now.

G_M

jamie11 wrote: »

Hmm. This same poster is over on LLZ with the same question.

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?57823-Rent-paid-in-advance-SPT-period-length#post460436

My answers there concur with the answers here but a couple of the members seem to think it's a 6 monthly periodic tenancy now.

As I said above, the agent could present an argument for a 6monthly SPT, but I would disagree with the agent, and those members on LLZ for the reasons above.

DragonQ

G_M wrote: »

As I said above, the agent could present an argument for a 6monthly SPT, but I would disagree with the agent, and those members on LLZ for the reasons above.

I can't find any legal precident for this and the Citizens Advice Bureau were useless as all they could do was quote their website, which doesn't specify anything with regard to SPT periods.

It seems to me that either way could be argued, and obviously the letting agent has decided that the stupid option that benefits neither myself nor the landlord (6 month SPT) is correct, presumably to try to get us to pay renewal fees.

ValHaller

G_M wrote: »

As I said above, the agent could present an argument for a 6monthly SPT, but I would disagree with the agent, and those members on LLZ for the reasons above.

I'm late to this. But it looks like the agent are going down that road. If they are, it looks like a double edged sword - because doesn't the notice period increase correspondingly? Which might be the argument for monthly being better after all?

DragonQ

I have received communication from the landlord saying they don't want anything to do with me, and that I must do everything via the letting agent, mainly because they don't know anything about being a landlord or related law.

They have presumably been told by the letting agent that an SPT is not an option because they state they're going to take the letting agent's advice and kick me out if I don't renew (even though he "really" wants me to stay as a tenant).

Have I mentioned that I hate letting agents?

Googlies_2

"They are adamant that the AST will not move onto a monthly SPT because it'd be based on the last payment, which was for 6 months."

Can you tell us the amount of notice given in the S.21, if its just 2 months then they will be contradicting themselves.

DragonQ

I'll change the dates a bit but this is the gist:

Tenancy Start Date: 01/05/2013
S21 Date: 01/05/2013
S21 Date of Expiry: 31/10/2013
S21 Cover Letter Date: 07/05/2013
Date of Deposit Protection: 06/05/2013

The contract states that the notice period for an S21 must be a minimum of two months.


At this point I don't think it matters since the landlord will, at the !!!!!! advice of the letting agent, kick me out if it moves to an SPT.