On Call Hours?? Legal??

polo2k

they probably aint bothered if they are breaking rules!

well the point is, i think it is starting to get to me, as i now have some sleeping probs, which i never used to have. cant sleep until gone 3am and then really really really struggle to be up and in work for 8am.

alwaysonthego_2

polo2k wrote: »

they probably aint bothered if they are breaking rules!

well the point is, i think it is starting to get to me, as i now have some sleeping probs, which i never used to have. cant sleep until gone 3am and then really really really struggle to be up and in work for 8am.

well its affecting your health

ohreally

Establish your position in terms of the European working time directive and specifically references towards on-call working.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/WorkingHoursAndTimeOff/DG_10029426
There is loads of material out there. I have concerns re your health and safety in terms of your fitness to work if you are getting call outs during the night and are then expected to show for work at 8.00am, you must be fatigued and a possible danger to yourself and others. Your employer has a duty in law to provide a safe system of work - this is not advisory, it's compulsory under the health and safety at work act. They also need to have suitable and sufficient risk assessments with appropriate documentation that is readily accessible for you to view.This then brings us to health surveillance checks, do they provied this as well? Do you have a health and safety rep who you can raise this with?

Conor_3

Basically unless you have signed an opt out to the Working Time Directive, you can only work a maximum of 48hrs a week and have to have statutory daily and weekly rest periods which you won't get being on call.

polo2k

I dont believe i have signed anything to opt out of that, and to be prefectly honest with you, i dont believe i have signed anything to say i will do on call. because i never did it when i started working for the comapny and signed my contact.

brazilianwax

It could have been part of the contract

Lakeuk

You could do with renegotiating your contract regarding being on call, areas that could be covered:-

hourly on call rate
overtime rate if you get a call that results in you doing work
reimbursment of expenses
some different to being on call 24/365 - rota between other staff

Woby_Tide

you certainly seem to have a !!!!!! end of the stick, our rates (which are allegedly benchmarked against other similar firms) are £200 flat rate as long as we do at least 10 12 hour callout shifts i.e. overnight = 1, weekend = 2 per day, then you get £30 for each callout (followed by £30 per hour you remain on the issue), expenses for phones/internet are also re-imbursed. Officially we are also meant to have a 12 hour break from the end of our last overnight call before needing to work but unless it's a long issue that rule tends not to be followed. Likewise we have 2 weeks compulsory holidays per year that we have to take as a block to comply with industry regulations. Another of the very big players in the UK offers something a bit different where they considerably more for being 'on-call' but a lot less when they get called, they still end up quids in that way though if you get a low volume f calls.


You certainly need to talk to them about it, completely unreasonable IMO and I'd also suggest there is some legislation that prevents what they are doing.
The working time regs is probably the first point of failure for them with the right to 11 hours of rest a night. Being on call somedays they could probably argue, being on call and called everyday cannot
The basic rights and protections that the Regulations provide are:

• a limit of an average of 48 hours a week which a worker can be required to work (though workers can choose to work more if they want to).
• a limit of an average of 8 hours work in 24 which nightworkers can be required to work.
• a right for night workers to receive free health assessments.
• a right to 11 hours rest a day.
• a right to a day off each week.
• a right to an in-work rest break if the working day is longer than 6 hours.
• a right to 4 weeks paid leave per year.

polo2k

bloody hell!

I am being screwed by the MD's!
When i can actually get them both together i actaully think its time for a negotiation!

Thanks for the info everyone!

mrtg0525

As a lot of the other people have said, check your contract for any suggestions that the company has the right to shackle you to your desk (namely the working time opt-out, because from what I remember they can't just get anyone to sign the opt-out; you have to be in a managerial position in the first place in order to qualify).

So, the first question - what is your actual role? Are you:

a) The sysadmin, in which case I'd say you're not a manager
b) Managing the sysadmin(s) and sticking your oar in as well? Although I'd be wondering why you are fixing the systems in that case instead of setting up a rota.

Just calling someone a manager doesn't necessarily mean that s/he is one...

I've been in similar positions (I'm a software developer/team leader and have done the sysadmin thing as well) but I was never the only person on call. As a team leader I was often the escalation point so I was implicitly on call even if it wasn't my shift, but not in the sense that I couldn't go to the pub!

From experience, here's what I would do, based on prior experience of similar situations. No particular order...

• Talk to your GP. Your work schedule is playing with your health and unless you are going for "earliest recorded heart attack", you need to do something about that. Before you become a danger to yourself and others, get a sick note if that's the only thing your employer understands. And if you've got one, turn the effing phone off.
• Come to an arrangement regarding working times. If you get called between 10pm and 3am and it's not a 30 second job to fix, then you need to recover from this. I'd say it would be totally unreasonable to expect you to do that and work a full day as well. There's no point in you driving your car into a ditch or ending up under a bus because you fell asleep at the wrong moment.
• Depending on the reaction of your employer, talk to a solicitor or union rep if you've got one. I'm not advocating the legal route unless as a last resort but you clearly need to know what your rights are here.
• Go look for another job, these guys are taking advantage of you big time.
• The fact that the company expects you to pay for your work tools (especially the phone) is unacceptable. Get them to provide you with a company phone and make sure they pay the bill. Otherwise, turn the damn thing off.
• Start keeping track of the actual hours worked. Keep an unofficial timesheet, record when you get called in the middle of the night and how long the issues take to resolve. The 48 hour limit is an average over a fairly long time so in order to qualify for anything under said directive, you'll need to keep a diary to prove that you're pretty much consistently over the limit.
• What's the worst thing that can happen? If you're any good in your job, you'll find another one, quickly.
• And as an encore, use the unofficial timesheet to work out if you're being paid less than minimum wage per hour worked.

All in all, I'd say the first thing you should do is acquaint yourself with http://www.jobserve.com/ - I think you are probably underpaid for the work you do anyway, and that's before you start working 24/7.

PS: I'm not an employment lawyer, just one of the IT guys who doesn't agree with brazilianwax's OH. But admittedly I'm often in the more comfortable situation of the employer needing me more than me needing them.

Oh, and I've been working since 7am this morning. Maybe I should heed my own advice... :rotfl: