Restaurant keeping staff tips

AP007

Naf wrote: »

You seem to be missing the point still. What you're linking to isn't law, it's a voluntary code that businesses can choose to subscribe to, or not.
I am standing up to them, but their response is as above; that cash left belongs to the business (they concede that cash put into staff's hand belongs to the staff member). Without a legal challenge, they will continue to assert that position.
I agree that most customers wouldn't leave a tip if they knew; and it seems so do the owners. But at present I'm reluctant to encourage staff to tell customers, as currently tips are only being 'withheld' on a temporary basis; permanence is just a threat right now.

This is why I believe my challenge based on an implied contract is the best bet.

If its not law then you are really stuffed then eh

Why don't you stand up to the company and ask them to address the staff that have made them want to do this?

If staff are failing then why are they still working there? They seem like cowards if they cant address staff issues but instead just say we are keeping the tips.

If you don't think it wise to tell the customers someone should as people leave tips in the industry as they believe the staff get them like I have said. The company have that duty to put it on the menus or bills that no tips left go to the staff but they maintain losses, runners etc

chuckley

such is life in these bar/waitressing jobs.

although ur place sounds like they're up the !!!! creek!

Naf

So here's the original email informing us they want to keep our tips;

To all staff,

Due to the problems being caused in the last two weeks due to staffs lack of disregard for customers, attention to detail and efficiency tips are being withheld until further notice.

I want to point out that we know that some of the staff are trying but until ALL staff begin to take their jobs seriously and put the business first then all staff will have to suffer.

Tips do not have to be shared amongst the team and can be kept for the business, this should really happen as the amount of money that the business has lost due to staffs inefficiencies recently is NOT ON !!!!

If you have any queries then please ask.

Thank you
Xxxxxxxxxx

Which I confronted them about, & received the response that they consider cash left on the business premises to belong to the business & they can do what they want with it.
As I had no legal challenge to offer, I was told that it would remain that way until things change or I could provide something from the law about it.


And here's my response;

You wanted to know about the law; so let me explain the legal position of your recent actions regarding the staff's tips.
There are two views which can be taken of the ownership of gratuities;
a) Cash tips left by customers belong to the staff, who voluntarily choose to pool them. The tips committee act as a 'Tronc' for purposes of distributing tips on the staff's behalf.
b) All tips belong to 'the house' and are the business' money to distribute as it pleases.

As you already know, I believe that the case is option a). Legal precedent has been set for this by historic practice; that the tips committee was voted by staff, has always distributed tips and act autonomously from the business owners. In this case you have no authority to unilaterally withhold tips as you have chosen to do; such a decision could only be taken by agreement of the tips committee, who would have to agree that it is what the staff would want.

Clearly you choose to believe the second case; however your actions are equally unjustifiable in this case. The distribution of tips forms an implied term of staff's terms of employment because it has been done on a regular basis over a long period of time. In addition tips have been advertised to form a part of wages in the restaurant window when the business has been recruiting. Refusing to pay them would, therefore, constitute a deduction from wages; and this can only be done when one of certain specific criteria are fulfilled. To be lawful the deduction must be:
1. Required or authorised by legislation (i.e. Taxes, National Insurance, Student Loan Deductions etc.)
2. To recover a previous overpayment
3. Authorised by a worker's contract - provided the worker has been given a written copy of the relevant terms or a written explanation of them BEFORE the deduction is made
4. Consented by the worker, in writing, before it is made. (See http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4125 and https://www.gov.uk/understanding-your-pay/deductions-from-your-pay and http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/18/part/II/crossheading/deductions-by-employer)

Withholding tips in the present manner does not meet any of these legal criteria, and therefore constitutes an unlawful deduction, and employment tribunals may be brought on such grounds.
If you wish to retain the right to choose whether or not tips are paid to staff, then there needs to be a clear policy provided to staff, in writing, as a change in terms of their employment contract - this would mean dissolving the tips committee & placing control of the tips with the business management instead. Even this would not cover the two weeks which are now due and being withheld illegally; and would most likely require tips to be considered on an individual basis rather than as a group.


Legalities aside, punishing all staff for the actions of a few (especially after admitting this openly to them) is extremely bad for morale; especially if staff believe that things are not going to improve quickly, it potentially gives the better performing team members less incentive to continue working as such as they are getting treated like a poor performer regardless if they work well or not.
I'm also dubious of the reaction of customers when staff start telling them that tips do not get handed on (which I am certain will happen if the situation carries on); I have particular concerns about the reaction of regulars and that it might be more than just not leaving tips.

In light of this, I think you ought to reconsider.

Ive also taken photos of the adverts for staff, and signed sheet of the result of staff voting in the tips committee. And I joined USDAW, just in case.

Takeaway_Addict

Well done for making the stand, I still think you're a bit nuts for doing it but I am sure all other staff will appreciate it (until you have to bolllock one!)

Be interesting to see what their response is, hopefully they will reinstate it and then go after those that are inefficient at their work and caused all this to start with.

comeandgo

Yes, this is interesting thread - I remember many years ago where I worked, and it was a large national hotel chain, very high class, if the till was under at night it was made up out of our cash tips, if it was over - nothing but we got very large tips, it was in the 1980's and we were getting £20 notes at that time.

AP007

Naf wrote: »

So here's the original email informing us they want to keep our tips;



Which I confronted them about, & received the response that they consider cash left on the business premises to belong to the business & they can do what they want with it.
As I had no legal challenge to offer, I was told that it would remain that way until things change or I could provide something from the law about it.


And here's my response;



Ive also taken photos of the adverts for staff, and signed sheet of the result of staff voting in the tips committee. And I joined USDAW, just in case.

Tronc and the distribution of tronc can not be decided/run by the company

Southend1

Well done for making a stand on this, it's important to show employers like yours that staff deserve to be well treated.

From the memo they sent it sounds like the employer is an extremely poor manager. No mention of what the problem is or how staff can help resolve it, just a mindless rant.

Keep us updated.

AP007

Southend1 wrote: »

Well done for making a stand on this, it's important to show employers like yours that staff deserve to be well treated.

From the memo they sent it sounds like the employer is an extremely poor manager. No mention of what the problem is or how staff can help resolve it, just a mindless rant.

Keep us updated.

Maybe the staff should call a meeting with the said boss and say 'tell us who is underperforming' I doubt there is anyone doing so badly. I think they are just using it as an excuse to keep the tips as maybe they are just as bad a business man/woman as they are boss

Gas_Powered_Toothbrush

To all staff,

Due to the problems being caused in the last two weeks due to staffs lack of disregard for customers

<snip>


If you have any queries then please ask.

Thank you
Xxxxxxxxxx

Query for employer:
Are you stupid and bad at English, or are you genuinely saying that staff should show more disregard for customers?

Naf

Gas_Powered_Toothbrush wrote: »

Query for employer:
Are you stupid and bad at English, or are you genuinely saying that staff should show more disregard for customers?

I did notice; but thought it might go down particularly bad on top of what I'm already doing.