NPower Tariffs - Economy 7 with afternoon boost.

P4ula

Hi,

I am trying to sort out my brothers electricity account and need some help please. He lives in a bungalow with storage heaters and an immersion heater which comes on overnight (There is no mains gas in the village he lives in and no plans to install mains gas in the future either).

His storage heaters are a bit funny though, as he gets 5 hours heat overnight (approx 2am to 7am) with a 2 hour 'afternoon boost' between about 2-4pm.

He has 4 meter readings on his meter (and bill) as follows:

1. Day Rate
2. Night Rate
3. 'Heat other' the meter reading is always 00000 so it looks like it is not used.
4. Heat

Taken from his last bill he has been on the following 'Spreading Warmth' social tariff which is coming to an end next week:

''Elec E7 Spreading Warmth,Elec Super Tariff Sprd Warmth Credit''

He has always paid upon receipt of the quarterly bill but is not averse to changing to monthly Direct Debit if that proves cheaper.

His postcode is DL7 0XX

Using Data from the past years bills, his predicted use is as follows (per year) at his current tariff prices.

Day rate 1st: 728 KWh @25.260 p/KWh (exc VAT)
Day next: 756 KWh @ 14.290 p/KWh (exc VAT)
Night: 2359 KWh @ 5.670 p/KWh (exc VAT)
Heat other: 0000 KWh @ 5.580 p/KWh (exc VAT)
Heat: 5626 KWh @ 5.580 p/KWh (exc VAT)

Total 9469kw/h per annum/ £734.59 incl VAT

I think the percentage day/night split is approx 20% day (Peak) and 80% (or thereabouts) Night/Heating (Off Peak).

He uses the storage heaters in winter and has timers so his washing etc is done overnight. The storage heater afternoon boost keeps his bungalow warm all day and he doesn't have to use extra (peak) heating, other than very early in a morning when it is on a cheap rate anyway.

Now the difficult part. His current tariff (see above) which was Npower's 'Social Tariff' is coming to an end next week and NPower have said he will move onto a much more expensive 'Standard' tariff.

Because he gets a War Disablement Pension which is counted as income he doesn't qualify for the Core or Broader group of the Warm Home Discount (he gets six pence per week too much to qualify for necessary means tested benefits!!).

So, we have been looking into cheaper alternative tariffs to NPower's standard tariff (which NPower will move him onto) both with NPower and other suppliers. He can run an online tariff if necessary.

However upon speaking with other suppliers he is being told the various cheap on-line and 'lock in to a certain date' tariffs are not available as he has a 'non standard meter'. This is both with NPower and other suppliers.

I am not sure what is 'non standard' about his meter as it seems he gets Economy 7, (just split up between overnight and the afternoon boost) and normal day/night electric.

Anyway, if he has a non standard meter, does anyone know of any cheaper tariffs than NPower's standard tariff?

Many thanks
Paula

Richie-from-the-Boro

There is something fundamentally wrong with the above that makes all 'downstream' opinions and calculations fragile.

- he is not on E7, but E10 [or a variation of]
- very few electricity suppliers will supply this E10 tariff
- E10 is the luxury end of E7 and much higher priced than E7
- because there is no competition for the supply of this tariff the cost is, and will remain high
- this will be the case regardless of which [of the very few] suppliers you may go to

I know you have read the info from his bill, and that he lives in the 'allerton area, but in my view something is wrong with your claim that the tariff is E7 ! Yes changing to monthly Direct Debit, supply his own meter reads and an e-account will make his existing tariff cheaper. You / he will have difficulty maintaining an E10 tariff and changing supplier with a non standard meter, and will almost certainly get very little if any financial benefit from the change.

The now defunct n-Power £135 (Inclusive of VAT) Spreading Warmth Credit, is now the n-Power Warm Home Discount. Whether your brother fits into either of the two groups is as you know to do with the technical definition of 'fuel poor'

Best of luck.

HappyMJ

Maybe called something different like Heatwise...it's a variant of an E10 tariff where you get 10 hours of cheaper heating over 24 hours....but it's much more expensive than E7 which only gives you overnight heating.

P4ula

Thanks Richie and Happy,

As I said above though, he only gets seven hours of 'heat/off peak per 24 hour period though.he gets 5 hours heat overnight (approx 2am to 7am) with a 2 hour 'afternoon boost' between about 2-4pm. I have stayed at his house (cat minding) and can confirm that is correct. There is no 'evening boost' one would associate with Economy 10.

I have just spoken to NPower again who confirm he is on Economy 7, just he doesn't have a standard product due to his meter (They won't change the meter though).

His last 4 years 'hard copy' bills and online 'back bills' all say he is on:

''Elec E7 Spreading Warmth,Elec Super Tariff Sprd Warmth Credit''

which again tends to suggest it is Economy 7.

However no other companies (nor NPower) will offer him a cheaper online tariff when his current Spreading Warmth tariff ends next week.

Re the £135 warmer homes thing, he doesn't qualify with NPower as he doesn't get the 'means tested' benefit needs. Some other companies (Such as British Gas) have a different criteria for the broader group but he is £3.12 per year (6p per week) above this other criteria. He went though all this over the phone with British Gas and other companies.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Paula

apt

If NPower is your brother's regional electricity supplier it has to change the meter if he tells them he wants to switch to economy 7 on the standard tariff. Once the new meter is fitted he can switch supplier. He'll probably use more electricity on economy 7 but at a lower rate per unit and a lower standing charge/equivalent.

Richie-from-the-Boro

P4ula #4

Not without losing his afternoon top-up and going [proper] E7. Look because we are going to get bogged down in terminology :

- E7 = 7 cheaper hours, night-time only
- E10 = 10 hours cheapish variously split into 24 hours

He's in a captured market, so minuscule nationally that very few suppliers will even entertain the tariff. A very big decision needs to be made to come off that comfortable tariff and possibly need (1) to pay for extra full price supplementary daytime heating as a top up for his existing 'stored heat capacity' or (2) change or add more 'stored heat capacity' to his living area.

I've lived in both Brompton & Appleton Wiske. Unless he lives in the tiny-est two room ground floor he will be able to squeeze a 1kW or 1.7kW at about 20 inches wide, this should give him enough stored cheap energy so he can afford to go to the E7 'proper' tariff, and the advantage of swapping suppliers. This would be a very cheap fix. The meter change cost [if any] would be between the new supplier and your brother. Whatever you decide to do, changing to monthly Direct Debit, supply his own meter reads and and running a [non-paper] e-account will make his existing tariff cheaper - this you could, and should do now - today !

Carrot007

This is not E7. It is a non standard meter/tarrif.

Is is Super Tarrif. Which was only available in the NEEB distribution area. (Though I believe similar tarrifs were offered in most areas around the country).

Npower are the only ones who have to support it. If he moves it will probably get messed up and Npower do not have to take him back on the tarrif (it is a legacy tarrif).

It uses 2 mpans not one. If you get an idiot on the phone looking only and the first mpan it will look like E7, you may have to remind them of the associatd mpan.

The 3rd register used to be called the error register so yes expect it not to move.

Npower should not be moving him to a standard tarrif as this is not standard! They may however mean the "standard" super tarrif tarrif.

In order to move he would need to have a meter changed to E7. This is simple from npowers point and should not cost a lot. However ther may be lots of changes needed on the customer side (from loosing the supertarrid heating part of the meter) to do.

In order to work out the costs just get a spreedsheet and include the supertarrif usage in the Day rate (looking up the standard E7 prices for the area) and recaculate the costs.

P4ula

Thanks all,

I thought I was beginning to get my head around this, until I received the following by e-mail from NPower:

[FONT=&quot]Following your telephone conversation I am writing to confirm the situation the account is set against.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This is a none core product, however for billing purposes we do infact refer to it as ‘Economy 7’ due to the seven hours of heat received within any 24hour period. Although we refer to it as Economy 7, it is not ‘Economy 7’ in the usual terminology of the energy market, nor is it Economy 10 again in the usual terminology, but is a hybrid legacy product (We refer to it as Economy 7 for billing as being a none core product we have no other title to give it). The hours of operation of this product are:
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Heat – a continual 5 hours somewhere between the hours of 00.01am and 7.00 am (GMT +/ – 1 hr) plus 2hrs continual boost, somewhere between 13.00 and 17.00hrs – by electronic signal from National Grid (GMT -1hr)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Other usage (ie apart from heat) on peak/ off-peak hours are:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Peak - from 07.00 to 23.59hrs[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Off Peak - 00.01 to 07.00hrs. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Again GMT/BST +/- 1 hour.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I can understand the confusion that referring to it as Economy 7 when infact it isn’t Economy 7 (nor Economy 10) can cause.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]With regards to the actual pricing structure tariff for energy used, your brother is being moved over to the Standard Tariff, which isn’t actually the ‘Standard Tariff’ in the usual terminology of the energy industry, but is a ‘Standard Tariff’ for none core products. Thus although he will see ‘Economy 7 Standard Tariff’ on his bills, rest assured he is not being billed at our Standard Tariff nor at Economy 7 rate.
[/FONT]
I must admit the last sentence is classic!!

Paula

Richie-from-the-Boro

Ok so this hybrid is E7 [7 hours of cheap] with 5 non-core night and two non-core daytime hours.

this is a none core product

- most regulars here knew and have known that since the old regional leccy boards [NEEB IN YOUR CASE] were scrapped

your brother is being moved over to the Standard Tariff

- this really worry's me !
- how may hours [and precisely when] of cheap rate in 24 ?
- and at what £ rate ?
- what exactly have they changed him to ?

changing to monthly Direct Debit, supply his own meter reads and and running a [non-paper] e-account will make his existing tariff cheaper

- still no mention of you attending to this, its one area of immediate benefit to your brother regardless of which tariff he is on

I have no idea what tariff P4ula's brother is now on, what exactly is """"the Standard Tariff, which isn’t actually the ‘Standard Tariff’ in the usual terminology of the energy industry, but is a ‘Standard Tariff’ for none core products"""" Is it cheaper or more expensive ? is he still getting the 2 daytime top-up non core hours of boost he considers necessary ?. Congratulations for getting this far P4ula !

P4ula

Ah.ah,

We have progress (well of a sort).

A letter arrived in the post at lunchtime today, setting out his new rates (now called Standard Tariff Economy 7 Super)!!

The new rates including VAT in comparison to the current prices (in brackets) are:

New Daily Standing Charge: 21.5p (was 23.0p)
New Day rate: 19.53p (was 15.01p)
New Night Rate: 5.95p (was 5.95p)
New Heat Rate: 6.89p (was 5.86p)

The new unit charges (except for Night Rate) as you can see having increased significantly, particularly the Day Rate. Perhaps my brother should become nocturnal??

Anyway another call to the lucky dip of NPower Customer Services staff and I was told he could move onto a cheaper tariff (which did surprise me) however she would have to refer it to 'the back office staff' on Monday as it would not let her transfer the account (which I was expecting!!).

She did say it made no difference whether he paid upon receipt of bill or by Direct Debit (which was a surprise) and that his supply would stay the same even if he moved to a cheaper online tariff (but she couldn't say what it was called as it was upto 'Back Office' to sort out.

I suppose it is now a matter of waiting for the 'back office' to make contact on Monday - although I don't think I will hear from them!!

Oh well, onwards and upwards as they say.

Paula

Richie-from-the-Boro

If you pay by Direct Debit you'll pay the same unit rate for energy used as receipt of bill customers, but will benefit from a reduced standing charge. Your daily standing charge will be discounted so that over a year you'll receive a discount of £40 on your electricity charges and £50 on your gas charges for paying by Direct Debit. If you choose not, or are no longer able, to pay in that way, you will no longer be eligible for the discounted standing charge and you’ll move on to the non-discounted version of our Standard tariff. If this happens, we'll give you at least 30 days notice that your standing charge will increase.

Always, always always, ask for the cheapest [not cheaper] possible tariff for your needs. No company is going to volunteer to lose money, you must ask - is that the cheapest available tariff ?.