What does the police want/expect me to do in this situation?

Happychappy

By doing nothing, the alleged offender can carry on committing crime until one day someone with backbone provides a statement ! Until then this character can continue to commit crime and will not have a criminal record as nobody was prepared to make a statement and always happy to leave it to the next victim until eventually the offender gets bolder and bolder knowing society will always back down to him.

This is not a personal dig it is just something the police face every day in being called to deal with characters such as the offender and when they do take action, they yet again see laddo walk away scot free, and his parents berating the police for picking on their son as he was innocent, until finally the only time he face courts is when someone has stood up to him, however he then gets dealt with as a first time offender as there are no or few previous convictions on file, the police are damned if you do, damned if you don't.

C_Mababejive

Havent read it all..
OP I appreciate your position though as im sure you know, on the crime radar,this offence is a small blip.

The Police only know a simple process.

Crime reported
Access case
Arrest miscreant and charge if possible
judicial process decides what penalty is applied

next crime please


They cannot arrest people for what might happen i.e fear of reprisals.

They can only pursue threats to do things or actual acts of violence

To clear all this up i suggest that you tell the police you will have the bike back and they can issue a verbal warning to the miscreant.

This gets your bike back, the thief gets a warning and fortunes are not wasted in the judicial process for a low grade crime.

Brewstersmum

I can understand the argument from all views but as a person that worked closely with young offenders for some years, I would encourage you to go to court. there are several reasons.

1, the lads on bail will get away with stealing the bike. smaller incidents often contribute to the '3 strikes and your out' rule. by letting them get away with it, what could be a tiny sentence to one offender could be a major sentence to someone who persistently robs.

2, if they are not quite at the point where they have spent time in a secure unit or young offenders after 15, this extra crime will help build a picture to get them there sooner.

3, small crimes such as robbing another child often lead to bigger robberies if they are not punished.......I have seen lads get away with shop lifting and turn to armed robbery.

4, the court system is a valuable lesson for your lad. as one person says, he may be on jury duty in 4 years! also think about when he is an adult and has to report a crime, will he be discouraged by this incident?

sorry if I sound like im preaching but ive seen enough little [EMAIL="s*@&tes"]s*@&tes[/EMAIL] get away with murder ( and yes literally) that they need bloody locking up when they are like that. a few months in the company of big time criminals that comit murder, arson and other bigger scale crime often sorts the ASBO !!!!!! out

sharnad

If you don't mind the kid nicking bikes don't take it to court. If you do and you want to try and do something to stop him then do go to court

Bennifred

OP - I understand that you are concerned with any repercussions etc, but you should also consider what message you are giving your son by not proceding with the complaint.

It's OK to take something belonging to someone else because there will be no consequence?
You shouldn't do the right thing because it might be harder than doing nothing?

I would urge you to see it through because it is the right thing to do, no matter how inconvenient.

Weird_Nev

I understand your concerns and your reasons for not wanting to follow up on it, but I do think it's a shame.

As a Detective of ten years experience:
If no-one gave evidence, then we would never be able to convict anyone.
If the courts were powerless through lack of witnesses, then criminals could act with impunity.
If criminals are never punished, then no lessons are learnt.

I feel you were poorly advised by the officers attending. It is not the case that your sons bike has to be retained for court. Photos will suffice once forensic evidence has been gained (if applicable) and he can have the bike back.
As one of the youths in on bail, this matter is all the more serious. it is a reason to push forwards, not drop it.

It is also the case that when properly investigated and brought before the court, nine times out of ten a guilty plea is entered and the witness does not have to give live evidence - though they must be prepared to.

This matter will be assigned to a police officer, depending on classification, severity and the local organisation of your force. I do hope that it is not the Uniform officers left to deal with it. they are underskilled and overworked to deal with "specialist" crime. This investigation could need video recording of your sons evidence, special measures applications making, youth bail conditions set, close liason with social workers and CPS. Sadly, Uniform officers just don't ahve the time or expertise to do all this properly. There will usually be a CID or robbery unit to deal with incidents like this PROVIDED they are classified as robbery,

Youth courts are also very well set up to deal with young witnesses as well as offenders. They do it 6 days a week remember. It is as informal and unintimidating (for the witness) as court can be. Special measures can also be put in place to protect your son. I am not saying it is a pleasant experience, far from it. It is stressful and difficult. But your son would be well supported. The myth of harsh cross examination is just that - particularly of child witnesses. Youth magistrates will not stand for it and I have seen barristers harshly admonished for overstepping the mark (and I didn't think they were being particularly bad!)

When asking "should I give evidence" you really do a have to consider wider ideals. yes, your son is the priority, but as part of that priority it matters what lessons you teach him and what messages he gets from the process.

What do the police expect form you? Well, you should ask them that. If they're overworked, under appreciated, and simply haven't got time, then they probably want you to drop it. I wonder if this is why they are telling you it will take a long time and your son won't get his bike back.
If they want to achieve convictions for robbery, then they need evidence from your son. In return, they should offer advice, guidance and support every step of the way.

It is ulitmately a decision you have to make with your son. His views are very important in this.

I would add that despite peoples fears, intimidation of witnesses is vanishingly rare. There is no quicker way to a cell then to intimidate witnesses, and offenders know this. What may have been dealt with with very little punishment suddenly becomes lengthy imprisonment. I have only known witness intimidation in major drugs trials and organised crime where there is serious money at stake.

I urge you to think it through, discuss it with the officer assigned to the case, and making an informed decision. If you want to PM me with any specific questions I will do my best to answer.

All the best whatever you decide.

geoffky

Fluff15 wrote: »

. It also goes against my morals, but criminals who do commit crimes already have a squiffy moral radar anyway.

What like not paying council tax because of illness or driving charges?

Fluff15

geoffky wrote: »

What like not paying council tax because of illness or driving charges?

I'm not quite sure what you mean? But if I have understood correctly, in the case of driving charges these are in place because somebody has broken driving laws or safety, and they could have put themselves or others in danger. If somebody wasn't paying their council tax because they were ill and couldn't afford to, no they shouldn't be punished, although ideally they would make the council aware of any issues so it doesn't creep back up on them.

Like I said, every case is individual and it's impossible to paint each case with the same brush.

C_Mababejive

The police arent too bothered about you. They just need your statement to nail a scrote and get a result. After that, your on your own.

Yorkie1

Pemguim and Weird Nev make really valid points about the realities of the investigation and youth court processes.

As the bike has been recovered the chances of a guilty plea, particularly if the lad has lots of previous and knows the score, to be relatively high - which means not having to give evidence.

I agree that a witness summons is unlikely to be issued in such a case if the OP's son was to provide a statement at this stage and later withdraw. Special measures have been mentioned. These enable witnesses to give evidence in a way which supports them as much as possible. Youth witnesses have extra presumptions in favour of special measures such as video recorded evidence and/or giving evidence through a TV link (i.e. not in the actual court room with the defendant).

No idea what the average time to trial is, but the youth court system does try to arrange trials quickly; probably within maybe 3 months?