Parking Eye have responded to my letter I sent to them after receiving a LBA

worlds_end1

Sorry out yesterday.

Summary:

Popla 4-7 is 1413


E-mailed MWay services same date - they sent my comments as an appeal as follows:

Reference XXXX
Please note information below
I await both your response and am happy for it to be forwarded on also.
　
Having carried out an inspection of the xxxx service station, it is clear that the signage in the car park is inadequate for the dark conditions at the time (xxxx to xxxx) when you allege the event occurred. It is easy to see how a driver can enter and exit the service car park without realising that a parking charge would be incurred, making it impossible for them to be aware of the terms and conditions and enter into any contract with you. Specifics of the inadequate parking signage include -:
(a) The first parking related sign on exiting the motorway has a street light positioned immediately BEHIND it making the sign impossible to read in the dark from a vehicle travelling at the 30 mph road speed limit. This contravenes the BPA guidelines which state "Signs should be readable and understandable at all times, including during the hours of darkness or at dusk if and when parking enforcement activity takes place at those times."
In the unlikely event that a driver could decipher this sign in the dark and conditions on the night concerned, the fact that the sign is positioned many hundred yards before the car park and directly opposite a lorry park gives a car driver no reason to think that this sign has any relevance to the services car park, over two hundred yards further ahead, that he may, or may not, visit. This is evidenced by the fact that there are road markings,two hundred yards further ahead,with an arrow pointing to the "Car Park". Your letter stated that, (as per the BPA code of practice), the signage is "clearly displayed at the entrance to … the car park". This parking sign is (a) not clearly displayed and (b) is not "at the entrance" to the car park.
(b) The second parking related sign is located approximately 20 yards before the entrance. This sign has "A.N.P.R". In bold large font. In fainter font, beneath this, it says "Automatic Number Plate Recognition in Operation". None of the Group 1 Entrance sign information required by the BPA Code of Practice is displayed on this sign.
The BPA code of practice also states that "Your signs at the car park must tell drivers that you are using this [ANPR] technology and what you will use the data captured by ANPR cameras for". This is patently not the case, since there is no readable signage that states "what you will use the data captured by ANPR cameras for"
(If, in fact, the miniscule print at the foot of the signage gives a reason for the ANPR, it would require a driver to stop their car and walk to the sign with a hand torch to read the miniscule font in the dark, so cannot be considered adequate.) This sign not only breaches the BPA code of practice but as it is also the closest sign, on the roadside, to the entrance, it contradicts your statement that "signage … is clearly displayed at the entrance to … the car park, states that this is private land, the car park is managed by Parking Eye and those parking …. must pay applicable tariffs for longer". None of this information is available to the passing motorist.
(c) Opposite the entrance to the car park, there is a parking sign that is on the verge next to the adjacent lorry park. This sign is completely unlit and obscured from the car park entrance by the branches of a tree. In the unlikely event that the sign could be seen by a car driver entering the car park, its position (three feet from the lorry park) and the fact that it is angled AWAY from the car park and towards the lorry park make it logical to assume that this sign relates exclusively to the lorry car park. I am sure that parking Eye cannot consider this to be signage for the car park since it contravenes the BPA guideline that the entrance sign "The sign should be placed so that it is readable by drivers without their needing to look away from the road ahead." This angle and distance of this sign makes it impossible to safely read this sign while driving.
(d) In addition to the lack of signage at the entrance to the car park, the signage within the car park is also impossible to see in dark conditions from certain bays. All parking signs are locate behind parking bays at a height that makes them completely obscured if a van or high vehicle uses that bay. Furthermore, (having been given no indication of parking charges at the entrance), there are no signs displayed until the eighth bay of each row of parking. This means that any cars parking in the first eight rows, during the hours of darkness, have no notification that there are parking restrictions within the car park.
3. - The charge does not represent any form of loss and as such it is punitive and therefore a PENALTY.
In conclusion, I require that you confirm acceptance of this challenge and cancel the charge, or provide a POPLA verification code, where a challenge will be mounted.
No further correspondence will be entered into with you on this matter. If nothing further is received from you within 35 days of the date of this letter it will be assumed the challenge is accepted and the charge cancelled.
Failure to send a POPLA code would be a breach of the BPA Code of Practice. Be advised that failure to comply with a code of conduct to which you have committed is a prohibited practice under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, and I would not hesitate to report such a breach to the BPA, DVLA and Trading Standards.


PE replied 240913:
Thank you for your further correspondence.
We can confirm that the opportunity to appeal to POPLA was granted and confirmed to you in our letter dated Early summerxx/2013. You were then given 28 days in which to submit your appeal to POPLA. After these 28 days have passed you are no longer able to submit a POPLA appeal.
Please note that, according to Civil Procedure Rules 1998, a document, other than a claim form, shall be deemed to be served on the second day after it was posted, left with, delivered to or collected by the relevant service provider provided that day is a business day; or if not, the next business day after that.

Popla code was attached to letter of xxxx2013.

Last letter to PE 190913 - no reply by post as yet : this asked for reply to mine of 060913 (req PD information)+ 120913 (I advised them i was not the driver - named XXX)

Have this week written direct to CEO MWay services

Advice gratefully received - will i get CCS?

many thanks

Umkomaas

Not much you can do now other than to wait and see what happens. Your best bet of avoiding this at the moment is your appeal to the motorway service provider - so at least one iron still in the fire at this stage.

If you get a Letter Before County Court Claim or Letter Before Action, do not ignore it but come back as soon as it arrives for further advice.

In your post above, not sure what you meant by

Popla 4-7 is 1413

zzzLazyDaisy

OP got an LBA back in July and appears to have dropped the 'practice direction' ball.

OP you have done the right thing contacting the MSA to try and get the charge cancelled.

However in the meantime you should be aware that you must either a) continue to complain about the lack of PD compliant info or b) send them your formal Response under the PD. If you do neither, then they can start court proceedings without giving you any further notice and they have 6 years from the date of the 'parking event' to do so.

That is not to say they WILL start proceedings but the risk is there and it is up to you whether you choose to continue with the correspondence or not.

*If* you wish to protect yourself by complaining about the way they are dealing with the LBA/PD procedure (or not) you need to post a timetable of letters between you and them, starting with the LBA and including all letters no matter how apparently irrelevant their letters may seem. I can then help you with the next letter in the chain. Alternatively you may consider the risk is not that high, and decide to let sleeping dogs lie. That of course is up to you.

D

worlds_end1

2 re the letter about the POPLA code, people have asked you to check the digits or post them so they can be checked for you. This is so you can find out when the code expired (if it has expired)
Advised numbers above?
My question was whether Popla too late?
Thanks again

salmosalaris

Expired 28 days after 21 May
What was the date on the letter the POPLA code came on ?
And when did you send that letter to the Mway services ?

worlds_end1

Popla letter dated 210513

Recd Mway services reply today....prepared to "assist" by asking for £10 payment + £10 admin.......may consider?

Coupon-mad

worlds_end1 wrote: »

Popla letter dated 210513

Recd Mway services reply today....prepared to "assist" by asking for £10 payment + £10 admin.......may consider?

Yep, worth considering letting them assist you under the circumstances, and if you'd read the complaint successes on the sticky thread at the top of the forum you'd have seen there's a case like that on it. Exactly the same and the person paid that amount.

After all, isn't the £10 the overstay parking fee you should have paid on the day, and the other £10 admin? It pains me to say it but because you are past LBA stage and getting nowhere fast, this may be a good bet to get this monkey off your back. You could always escalate the complaint with the CEO of the Services afterwards...unless that 'offer to assist' was from the CEO?

OR write to PE and tell them who was driving if it's a different person, as already advised above yesterday by zzzLazyDaisy. Then that person will get sent a Notice to Driver and can then appeal and do the POPLA thing.

Your choice - and not a bad place to be now. At least you are not stuck between a rock and a hard place now, more like stuck between a couple of pebbles, deciding which one to kick into touch!