The government should change the law regarding buying/selling

Richard_Webster

The idea of putting down say £1,000 at the beginning has often been suggested but the problem is defining the circumstances in which it is refundable. What happens if it turns out there is no planning permission for an extension or it was built in breach of covenant?

Experience has shown that solicitors are likely to spend more time arguing about the wording of such an agreement re the £1,000 than simply getting on with the conveyancing.

If you don't have chains then you either have to find somewhere to stay between selling and buying or you have to rely on bridging loans if you are committed to buy before your buyer is committed to buy from you, and such oans necessarily be available?

ash28

jennifernil wrote: »

I would agree....it's a mystery to me that anyone in England ever manages to buy a house, everything is sooooo uncertain!!

All these chains and everyone must move on the same day.........why???

If everyone didn't move on the same day where would they go? Into rented or into a hotel ?

We've been there....sold in Scotland where the settlement date is agreed at the beginning of the process and bought in England where it is agreed towards the end.

In Scotland you effectively exchange contracts at the beginning.

We ended up with 4 days when we had no where to live....so stuff in storage and a hotel for 5 of us and a bridging loan........expensive and stressful.

Battleaxe44

Do as is done in certain countries overseas, Settlement can and is done in 21 days.

Non refundable deposit I f forget the percentage) is placed in bond with EA at agreement to buy.

Six months from beginning to end and no chain is a farce. Which end was the hold up? The Seller...the solicitor could not give a rat's tooth that the paper had been sitting on his desk for nearly two months. bearing in mind the Seller asked if we could move in on a certain date, we were ready for that date and then things ground to a halt. I asked for the keys and we paid market rate rent until completion. the house had been empty for 18 months (ex MOD) and had been fully refurbished and ready for occupancy

If I sell this place I will be requestig the buyer to have the survery done within a week and exhange within a month or no sale. I might have to wait for a buyer to meet these conditions, but if the buyer wants house enough they will get their solicitor on the move, after all this is what you pay them for.

Who ever is engaged to do the survey has to honour the time frame. it is a raduical change and something that needs to be implemented.

If you buy a house at auction you have four weeks to complete.. 10% deposit down at fall of the hammer, Don't complete? You loose the lot.

You either want to buy or don't want to buy..Everyone needs to be focused.

oh the other thing I had never was chains until I came to this country. i had to aske what it was when I saw houses for sale and ' no chain 'stipulated..

Yes bridging loans are used frequently and they are for six weeks only, so it keeps all minds on the job.

No, don't think laterally for a change, let's keep doing what we have been doing, we love the stress and uncertainity of the sale is going to fall though. Just my opinion....

Oh if the seller pulls out he is the one who repays the costs of the potential buyer.

It is all written in the contract.

Guest101

Propertyfan wrote: »

There should be a new, defined conveyancing law- an act of Parliament - given the Royal seal of approval so all potential buyers/sellers/estate agents/solicitors/local government depts/other organizations know the rules and legal requirements.

The details are as follows:

1) All property buying/selling in England and Wales requires a contract drawn up and signed as soon as a sales price is agreed. If a buyer wants to buy your property and you agree the price, within one working week of that 'agreement' (the agreement being a written letter sent to both parties by your EA confirming the memorandum of sales), your solicitor draws up a Property Sale/Purchase contract.

Please note this *is not* a contract to be exchanged at the end of the conveyancing. It is a new contract that both parties sign within a week of the sale price being agreed, and these signed copies of the contract are sent to the respective solicitors.

The contract is divided into two distinct sections. Parts 1 and 2. Part 1 concerns the immediate agreement to buy/sell a property. Part 2 finalizes the agreement to buy/sell a property.

Contact part 1 states: "both parties have agreed to the sale price and wish to proceed. Both parties have agreed a 'date of sale'. A condition of signing the contract (part 1) is an agreement on 'a date of sale'." The buyer and seller sign contract part 1.

2) A 'date of sale' has to be given by which time the exchange of contracts is done. Unlike the absurd current system where no date is given and the thing can drag on for months often resulting in numerous extra telephone calls/emails/letters to EAs and solicitors, a date - a reasonable date - must be given by which time all relevant searches/surveys/queries/viewings etc of the property are concluded.

The new conveyancing law will require relevant local authority departments to honour the time frame determined within the contract. In other words, if both parties agree to an exchange within a month, the local authorities/other organizations/solicitors are legally bound to undertake and *complete* all their duties by the specified agreed date. If they exceed the time limit they can be prosecuted/be forced to pay compensation to the buyer/seller/or reported to the governing body (such as an Ombudsmen or the Law Society, or local MP).

With regard to the length of the date of sale - four weeks would seem an appropriate time. The absolute limit would be five weeks. All conveyancing must be done with four to five weeks. Four weeks would be the default time date. If both parties are happy with that then the four weeks time date is set. If the parties wish to extend the date then it's five weeks. If five weeks is agreed, a reason has to be given. Under the new conveyancing law, you can't just say "I prefer five weeks." A reason has to be given, written down in a letter and the other party has to give their consent. Obviously, the other party wants to complete the buy/sale transaction, they don't want to say "no, the deal is off because you've insisted on five weeks instead of four" so they don't won't to disagree just for the sake of it, however, the five week time date is subject to a specific reason being written down in a letter and agreed by the other party. If the reason given is "have yet to receive all the funds to purchase property" then the buyer is legally responsible to provide evidence to the seller/and their solicitor. Just saying "I haven't got all the money, give me another week to sort this out" is not acceptable. The time limit cannot be extended beyond five weeks.

3) Contract part 2. When all searches/surveys/solicitors' letters etc are done the contracts are exchanged. After the contracts are signed and exchanged, contract part 2 is signed by both parties. This ratifies the entire process. The final step is to agree a time for completion where keys are exchanged, furniture is removed, deeds given to the new buyer etc.

4) A buyer or seller will be legally accountable if he/she pulls out of the deal after the signing of contract part 1. This is a critical part of the new law. Once both parties have signed the contract (part 1) they are legally bound to honour it. If the buyer pulls out of the deal after contract part 1 is signed, the seller is entitled to claim damages for money incurred on solicitor's fees and other pertinent expenses. The buyer cannot claim ignorance/lack of cash/or just say "sorry, I changed my mind." The buyer will be legally required to compensate the buyer and if she/refuses, the buyer's assets, up the value of the compensation, will be seized. The same scenario will happen if the seller is at fault and decides to pull out of the deal.

I believe a law like this is the right way to sell and buy properties. I am not the type to seek political office but if I were and became an MP I would champion this cause as a Private Members Bill.

There's a reason this type of law doesnt exist, ill let you try to work out why.

The hint is, read all the answers youve got so far..

Battleaxe44

Richard_Webster wrote: »

The idea of putting down say £1,000 at the beginning has often been suggested but the problem is defining the circumstances in which it is refundable. What happens if it turns out there is no planning permission for an extension or it was built in breach of covenant?

Ah, this is where the seller has a pack to prove everything complies with all building codes and regs. I have a file built up on this house with all the paperwork (experience from overseas) This is where the marketing EA should be proactive and make sure before the house is listed that everything is place in for a seller to view.. Of course this would too revolutionary. Isn't the EA acting for the seller and receives payment for selling?

Oh.. I am not referring to those HIP's things as the Sellers pack. It is the history of the house and everything that has been done improvement wise with supporting documentation. It takes nothing to add the approval letter to the file and the final inspection documentation from the building inspector to say this complies with all the regs.

It is a change of mindset and I despair that sometimes people just don't want to move out their comfort zones even if it will to be to their advantage.

hazyjo

Who keeps the £1k? The seller? Or does it get paid towards fees? If someone knew there was something wrong with their house, who's to stop them putting it on the market once a year, letting the buyers find the problem, have them pull out, and kerching - another £1k in the bank (maybe after spending a hundred or two on solicitors at most. All they need to do is say it's chain free and they're moving in with whoever).

Don't agree with a deposit unless it's refundable if there's good reason for someone pulling out. However, that may even be a change in personal circumstances. Who's to draw the line? What if someone's parent had a fall, stroke or developed an illness and they decided to buy elsewhere so they could accommodate them. What if something happens in the near vicinity that makes you decide to pull out before exchange, redundancies (or threat of it)... Far too many ifs and buts. People would lie to get out of paying the £1k. Who would simply say they've changed their mind? They'd probably invent something so they'd get it refunded.

Jx

propertyman

The one answer I haven't seen is the reason why its daft

Both V and P have to find a property to buy and sell theirs- they can't afford to own two homes.

Where this, rarely, doesn't apply it can be done, I've exchanged in a day and completed at the end of the week.

googler

ash28 wrote: »

If everyone didn't move on the same day where would they go? Into rented or into a hotel ?

We've been there....sold in Scotland where the settlement date is agreed at the beginning of the process and bought in England where it is agreed towards the end.

In Scotland you effectively exchange contracts at the beginning.

We ended up with 4 days when we had no where to live....so stuff in storage and a hotel for 5 of us and a bridging loan........expensive and stressful.

Yet, for folks moving within Scotland, we seem to manage a set of (say) three moves, from buyer/seller 1 at the low end, where buyer 1 is an FTB, and seller 1 is an FTB moving to their second home, buyer/seller 2 at next level, buyer/seller 3, etc.

With agreed entry dates upfront, they all know when they're moving, and all move on the same day. Solicitors who talk to each other, and speedy conclusion of missives (exchange of contracts) are key to this.

Another point is that by having a mandatory single survey done before sale, the Home Report, a lot of to- and fro-ing over survey results is removed from the process, which speeds things along. Many buyers buy on the basis of the HR, without commissioning extra surveys.

fart

googler wrote: »

Yet, for folks moving within Scotland, we seem to manage a set of (say) three moves, from buyer/seller 1 at the low end, where buyer 1 is an FTB, and seller 1 is an FTB moving to their second home, buyer/seller 2 at next level, buyer/seller 3, etc.

With agreed entry dates upfront, they all know when they're moving, and all move on the same day. Solicitors who talk to each other, and speedy conclusion of missives (exchange of contracts) are key to this.

Another point is that by having a mandatory single survey done before sale, the Home Report, a lot of to- and fro-ing over survey results is removed from the process, which speeds things along. Many buyers buy on the basis of the HR, without commissioning extra surveys.

This is pretty much the position we're in. We read the Home Report before even going to view, noted down the few '2's on it and i checked them thoroughly myself when i viewed it. Can't imagine having to now have a survey done, which would add at least 2 weeks onto the time i would have thought - those reports are pretty lengthy.

It just seems to be so much smoother in Scotland compared to England. All the important parts are agreed in the written offer.

Propertyfan

"If I sell this place I will be requesting the buyer to have the survey done within a week and exchange within a month or no sale."

Hmm... interesting idea.

Don't agree with a deposit unless it's refundable if there's good reason for someone pulling out. However, that may even be a change in personal circumstances. Who's to draw the line? What if someone's parent had a fall, stroke or developed an illness and they decided to buy elsewhere so they could accommodate them. What if something happens in the near vicinity that makes you decide to pull out before exchange, redundancies (or threat of it)... Far too many ifs and buts. People would lie to get out of paying the £1k. Who would simply say they've changed their mind? They'd probably invent something so they'd get it refunded.

Regarding the £1,000 deposit idea I suggested, I accept it's not a perfect solution. "What if?" can be applied to any part of the buying/selling process. At some point you can't worry about "what if'. You have to go on trust and hope that the buyer/seller are genuine, not misleading you. I believe a deposit is the best route to take because it's more or less saying "okay, you want to buy my property, I need some proof, some guarantee. Hand over a 1000 quid and you'll get it back at the end of the process."

Ultimately the seller has the greatest influence. He's got the thing the buyer wants - the property - so I think it's up to the seller to exert reasonable pressure on the EA, the buyer, his/her solicitor, to get the process moving and to avoid any unreasonable delays. This is something I have learned from my own experiences. I am currently trying to sell my property to a new buyer and I'm being more forceful. The potential downside is if you're too forceful you might jeopardize the sale. If you say "the survey must be done within the next week or the deal is off" the buyer might say "I can't do it within a week so the deal is off" - and this means you've just lost the sale. Had you waited a little longer the survey might have been done and the sale gone through.

A lot of the the problems involved in buying/selling would be solved or eased if specific time dates were set in a 'provisional contact' or a 'schedule of sale' document/contract. Both parties could sign this 'schedule of sale' and this would lock them into completing various stages of the conveyance by a certain date. I don't think that's a radical concept. I'm sure it's achievable.

The present system is just 'wait and see what happens'. If your buyer is in no rush to get a surveyor, you (the seller) have to wait and wait and then you ring the EA and he/she can fob you off with some excuse. My EA told me yesterday "there aren't many surveyors in South East England" - "it's summer time and they're away on holiday." This may or may not be true but it's finding reasons to delay the process. If the buyer/seller have agreed a specific date by which time a surveyor is hired you would avoid telephone calls/emails to EA asking "is the buyer going to get a survey or not? It's two weeks and I've heard nothing."

Some form of pre-contract - a time table of dates by which time key stages of the conveyancing are completed - should be drawn up and signed after both parties agree the sale/purchase. I don't know if there's any pressure group out there lobbying for a change in the system. Things can only change when people - enough people - campaign for change.

One route could be to contact:

Mark Prisk MP - UK Minister of State for Housing


The Minister of State is deputy to the Secretary of State across the Department for Communities and Local Government’s responsibilities.

The minister is responsible for:
housing
local growth, cities and regeneration
high streets, town centres and markets
planning policy and casework in relation to wind farms

If I sell my property I will contact him and put forward some of my suggestions:

http://www.markprisk.com/contact