The government should change the law regarding buying/selling

fart

I can see you took a long time to think through and write that up, but it's pretty much redundant. You could have just said once an offer has been made it's legally binding once accepted. Like Scotland.

Simple.

Putting time limits on it is totally !!!!!!. What if there's a major snag with locating certain documents or getting hold of certain people? Stuff takes as long as it takes.

There should probably be law to prevent EA's/Solicitors stalling as much from what i've heard, but to put actual time limits on which aren't reasonable is a joke.

googler

The main problem that I see with the E&W system is that not enough of the deal is agreed when the offer is made and accepted.

In E&W, you make an offer at a certain price. That's accepted, but you decide the entry date, the terms of the contract, and what's included in or excluded from the sale much later on. It's not that difficult to do this all at the time of offer acceptance, and in a standard Scottish sale, this has been standard for some time.

In Scotland a standard offer includes a price, an entry date, and the standard contract clauses which will apply. Any inclusions or exclusions (appliances, furnishings, etc) are determined by a combination of standard lists in the standard contract clauses, the seller's sales brochure, and any requests to include/exclude in the offer letter.

There's some to- and fro-ing for surveys or home reports to be accepted or not, and some negotation may take place to vary the terms, but broadly speaking, most sales continue on the basis of the offer, and complete on the entry date specified in the offer.

So, at a stroke, when your offer is accepted, you know what you're buying it for, when you'll move in, what extras will be included or excluded, and what contract terms will apply.

S'easy.

fart

googler wrote: »

The main problem that I see with the E&W system is that not enough of the deal is agreed when the offer is made and accepted.

In E&W, you make an offer at a certain price. That's accepted, but you decide the entry date, the terms of the contract, and what's included in or excluded from the sale much later on. It's not that difficult to do this all at the time of offer acceptance, and in a standard Scottish sale, this has been standard for some time.

In Scotland a standard offer includes a price, an entry date, and the standard contract clauses which will apply. Any inclusions or exclusions (appliances, furnishings, etc) are determined by a combination of standard lists in the standard contract clauses, the seller's sales brochure, and any requests to include/exclude in the offer letter.

There's some to- and fro-ing for surveys or home reports to be accepted or not, and some negotation may take place to vary the terms, but broadly speaking, most sales continue on the basis of the offer, and complete on the entry date specified in the offer.

So, at a stroke, when your offer is accepted, you know what you're buying it for, when you'll move in, what extras will be included or excluded, and what contract terms will apply.

S'easy.

I made an offer on a property outside Edinburgh last week, i've already been sent the contract which states pretty much everything on it.

States what is to be included, what rights they're giving up and i'm getting, what buildings/grounds come with it, what the offer is subject to, the completion date, everything. Basically England is miles behind Scotland in loads of things and so it proves to be again (I'm English btw).

Wyndham

Propertyfan, your posts are always interesting and entertaining! However, I know from other posts that you're currently having a bit of a frustrating time with a house move. This is,unfortunately, normal practice. These things take time, and always more time than you think. There are so many factors to be considered, many of which are protections for the buyer. So, if the survey found something awful, that needs to be addressed, and your contract idea would need scope to do that. What if the buyer can't get a mortgage after all? What if (as pops5588 mentions) there is a serious illness, or a significant change in circumstances on one side or the other.

Of course, these things can happen post-exchange, or even post-move at the moment. But, your system assumes that all will go smoothly, and I think that's the problem with it - there are too many unknowns (some of which are unknown unknows!)

jamie11

If all those things you want come to pass then you are simply going to have another layer added to the legal maze.

There would be 'provisional' offers, which would depend on the vendor indicating he will accept if a firm offer is made.

No way would I ever make an offer unless it was going to be 'subject to contract'.

ash28

Propertyfan wrote: »

Just to add - the new law will require mortgage applications to be finalized within five weeks. Under the terms of the new conveyancing law, all mortgage companies will be legally responsible to undertake their duties within five weeks. If they stall they will be open to prosecution.



This allows the buyer/seller one week cooling off period to consider if they want to go ahead with the deal. One week is long enough. The buyer/seller can pull out within that one week. Once the week has passed the Property Sale/Purchase contract is sent out and you have to sign it.



Well it's in the buyer's interest to have the survey done in the first week. This will give them the time to consider the results of the survey. As for the searches, they should be completed within the time frame of four to five weeks. If there is a major problem, well, tough. You should have considered that before you signed contract part 1. Put it this way... imagine you see a lovely property near a stream or near a pond. "I love the house, let's buy it." You sign contract part 1 - you're locked into buying it. The next day you notice it's raining rather hard. "Hmm, this rain has got me thinking. If it pours for days will that stream or pond flood my house?" Oh ****, I never realized that."

Well, tough. You should have have considered all potential problems before buying the house. As for the searches, I got all the searches back for the property I want to buy. None said "his house is on a nuclear radioactive site." A survey is more valid than most of these pointless searches which is just pointless paperwork for council employees and other organizations.

Okay... how about this alteration of my suggestion.

Not one week but a two week cooling off period. In that period the buyer can get someone to do a survey of the property. If the survey is good then they proceed to sign contract part 1. Two weeks is a decent enough length of time.

These pointless searches can throw things up like no planning permission for a extension or no building regs or sign off certificate, tree preservation orders, it could highlight planning issues like a new development or major road widening works or similar that might make you reconsider buying the house, rights of way across the property.....drainage and water searches can throw up things like, responsibility for drains/shared drains....existence of any agreements or consents for the property.... the responsibility could be yours.

A valid survey will not highlight any of those issues and any one of those issues could make me withdraw from a purchase - depending on the severity.

It does sound like a similar system to the Scottish system.....we have bought and sold under both the English and Scottish system and in Scotland we had a survey done before putting in a offer.

googler

jamie11 wrote: »

There would be 'provisional' offers, which would depend on the vendor indicating he will accept if a firm offer is made.

I refer you to posts 13 and 14. We manage in Scotland without 'provisional' offers, so why would this be an issue in E&W?

Yes, there is a legal construct around it, but that's what solicitors are for, surely?

Propertyfan

Propertyfan, your posts are always interesting and entertaining! However, I know from other posts that you're currently having a bit of a frustrating time with a house move. This is,unfortunately, normal practice. These things take time, and always more time than you think. There are so many factors to be considered, many of which are protections for the buyer. So, if the survey found something awful, that needs to be addressed, and your contract idea would need scope to do that. What if the buyer can't get a mortgage after all? What if (as pops5588 mentions) there is a serious illness, or a significant change in circumstances on one side or the other.

Of course, these things can happen post-exchange, or even post-move at the moment. But, your system assumes that all will go smoothly, and I think that's the problem with it - there are too many unknowns (some of which are unknown unknows!)

Known unknowns vs unknown unknowns! Ah yes! Who can forget those great terms!

"It's known that we don't know what we don't know. Technically that makes it unknown. However, we do know what we know and that isn't unknown. If the situation changes and the known becomes unknown we will let you know and this will be classified as known unknowns. And if the known unknowns become unknown they'll become unknown unknowns that used to be known!"

jennifernil

I would agree....it's a mystery to me that anyone in England ever manages to buy a house, everything is sooooo uncertain!!

All these chains and everyone must move on the same day.........why???

Propertyfan

I think deposits - refundable or non-refundable - are the way to approach it. If you get the buyer to waste... ahem... I mean spend a small amount on a guarantee paid upfront before the conveyancing begins, that should help a little. Should give the seller some peace of mind. I think all property sales should come with a deposit. It should be standard practice.

Heck, I know when I bought my 20 million pound mansion the seller wanted a deposit of fifty quid. I thought that was outrageous but I did agree to it. If it's good enough for me it's good enough for everyone.