What would happen in this scenario?

seven-day-weekend

A hypothetical situation, but there must be people in this position.

A single person with no dependents becomes sick with a mental health condition. They have a job and are paid Statutory Sick Pay for a while. Then that stops so they apply for ESA.

They do not score enough points on ESA. They go through all the appeals and tribunals etc but still are not awarded ESA.

They still have their job but are not well enough to return to work.

What are they expected to live on?

rogerblack

If it has been more than 6 months since the last time they were found fit, they reapply for ESA.
Otherwise JSA.
If they cannot comply with a JSAg, and it's not been 6 months, then they reapply for ESA with the added condition of stress/starvation - due to having no money.
Hardship payments may in some cases be possible.

seven-day-weekend

rogerblack wrote: »

If it has been more than 6 months since the last time they were found fit, they reapply for ESA.
Otherwise JSA.
If they cannot comply with a JSAg, and it's not been 6 months, then they reapply for ESA with the added condition of stress/starvation - due to having no money.
Hardship payments may in some cases be possible.

They have a job, they just are too ill to work at it. So JSA not appropriate.

So it would be re-apply for ESA and hope for the best.

What money would they get in the meantime?

pmlindyloo

My 'take' on it.

Since the period of not working would be considerable then this scenario would be unlikely to occur as the employer would have been almost certainly negotiating with their employee about their future.

Usually the person is declared medically unfit and they are dismissed. If the employer hasn't done anything about the situation then there would have to be negotiations so that the person doesn't have to resign thus making them susceptible to a sanction for JSA.

If the person is dismissed this then means that they can either claim JSA (citing medical reasons for resignation) or put another claim in for ESA (it has to be 6 months from the original decision)

Of course if the employer is happy to keep their job open then they can still put in another claim for ESA.

Rather depends on the person's 'illness'. I would have thought that a new claim for ESA would have to have more supporting evidence - counselling/psychiatrist etc - after the length of time going through appeals/tribunals. Again depends on the statement of reasons - why they were refused.

Otherwise, a claim for JSA and appointment with the Disability advisor.

Can't think of any other possibilities, sorry.

seven-day-weekend

Thanks for your input on this.

The reason I asked was I was talking to my husband about when he was ill with a severe mental health condition for two years in the early 90s. He was actually in a profession where the sick pay scheme was excellent, but eventually it ran out and he claimed Incapacity Benefit. (He did eventually have to leave his job on health grounds). Also I was working part-time and could have got a full-time job if necessary.

It just made us wonder, what would a single person whose job did not have such generous sick pay conditions do? The ESA descriptors for mental health conditions are very stringent and I think many prople would be refused. I don't know whether my husband would have met the descriptors for ESA, all I know is that he was too ill to return to work for two years.

Just got us thinking.

rogerblack

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

They have a job, they just are too ill to work at it. So JSA not appropriate.

So it would be re-apply for ESA and hope for the best.

What money would they get in the meantime?

If you are not being paid - you can claim JSA.

If you are not eligible for hardship ESA/JSA - you get nothing, unless you can reapply for ESA 6 months following a dissalowance, or a new condition.

Dunroamin

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

Thanks for your input on this.

The reason I asked was I was talking to my husband about when he was ill with a severe mental health condition for two years in the early 90s. He was actually in a profession where the sick pay scheme was excellent, but eventually it ran out and he claimed Incapacity Benefit. (He did eventually have to leave his job on health grounds). Also I was working part-time and could have got a full-time job if necessary.

It just made us wonder, what would a single person whose job did not have such generous sick pay conditions do? The ESA descriptors for mental health conditions are very stringent and I think many prople would be refused. I don't know whether my husband would have met the descriptors for ESA, all I know is that he was too ill to return to work for two years.

Just got us thinking.

But was he too ill to do any work or just teaching? I know when I took ill health retirement from teaching I could have done something else (as I eventually did) if I hadn't been receiving my teacher's pension.

seven-day-weekend

Dunroamin wrote: »

But was he too ill to do any work or just teaching? I know when I took ill health retirement from teaching I could have done something else (as I eventually did) if I hadn't been receiving my teacher's pension.

For two years he could not have done anything employed. He could not get organised and could not have coped with the self-discipline required to go to work and hold down a job.

He may have been able to do something self-employed, like produce his art work for sale, as long as someone else (me ) did the paperwork and finances and organised the sale of it.

He did in fact produce loads of artwork while he was ill, (after about a year), it was therapeutic, and later I sold some of it on a market stall.

As you know, he eventually went back into teaching, beginning with supply of about one day a week, then part-time three days a week, then full-time. Later still he went part-time again, then took early retirement.

jacques_chirac

This situation is more common than you think, not because people do not qualify for help, but that they are too sick to think about what they might claim. It happened to me about ten years ago - my SSP entitlement ended, and I know I received some paperwork (presumably for IB) but I couldn't deal with it. I spent the next year living off handouts.

In this situation, I was one of the lucky ones - I'll always have people to fall back on (although they wouldn't know where to start with a benefit form!). I did have to sell my house, but the market was buoyant and I made enough to allow me time to get well. I do know others that have ended up on the streets in this situation though, and in current times I'd expect that to be all the more common

Dunroamin

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

For two years he could not have done anything employed. He could not get organised and could not have coped with the self-discipline required to go to work and hold down a job.

He may have been able to do something self-employed, like produce his art work for sale, as long as someone else (me ) did the paperwork and finances and organised the sale of it.

He did in fact produce loads of artwork while he was ill, (after about a year), it was therapeutic, and later I sold some of it on a market stall.

As you know, he eventually went back into teaching, beginning with supply of about one day a week, then part-time three days a week, then full-time. Later still he went part-time again, then took early retirement.

Why didn't he take early retirement, if you don't mind my asking?

seven-day-weekend

Dunroamin wrote: »

Why didn't he take early retirement, if you don't mind my asking?

He did take ill-health retirement in 1992.

Then he want back in 1994, when he felt able, because all he'd ever wanted to do was teach. He obviously had to stop receiving his ill-health Pension and then when he eventually retired for good in 2004 they deducted from his pension the lump sum he had already received.

Between 1993 and 1994 he did some part-time work (one day a week) with dyslexic children. Even this was too much sometimes, and he would spend the following day sleeping. So when he did go back into mainstream teaching, he had to work his hours up very slowly.