Roof terrace not actually a roof terrace

Fern123

Hi all,

I have been lurking in the forum for a few weeks and learning a lot from the existing posts. We are going through the process of buying our first flat and I was hoping we wouldn't have a problem that would warrant asking the forum for advice but it looks like we might do!

We had an offer accepted on a flat six weeks ago and are working towards exchange. The flat is one of five in a block (built as flats in 1900) and at some point it appears the internal communal stairwell has been extended up to the roof and a covered parapet built, with a door to access the flat roof at the back and communal loft space in the peaked roof at the front.

On showing some photos of the roof terrace to a friend yesterday (a structural engineer), he commented that the walls on the roof terrace weren't high enough to be safe. This got me thinking and I went through old planning applications for the borough on their website this morning. I found one from 1984 for the building which comments that the residents "do not have right of access to the roof area".

I queried this with our solicitor today and he said none of the documentation he has received mention anything about a roof terrace or the right of access to or use thereof.

The property is clearly advertised with "access to a communal roof terrace", and the listing has a picture of the roof terrace. I can see an historical listing for another flat in the block when it was for sale in 2007 and it is also advertised with access to the communal roof terrace.

Our flat has had two valuations (through our own surveyor and the lender's valuation) who valued the property at the purchase price, but would both have been bearing in mind the access to the roof terrace. In this area (London, zone 2), access to outside space can make a big difference to property value.

I wondered whether anyone else had experienced a similar situation and could clarify our thought process which is as follows:

It seems like the "roof terrace" is not legally a roof terrace and is simply a flat roof that someone has granted access to at some point in the past without the required permission to use it as an outdoor space for residents.
We could probably carry on using it as such but if a neighbour complained (about noise etc) the council or freeholder may be able to stop us from doing so.
And therefore if we wanted to continue with the purchase of this property, we would have to accept that when we came to sell it in the future, we may not be able to offer roof terrace access and therefore it would be valued accordingly.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Fern123

Mallotum_X

Have you spoken to the seller as to whether any rights/permissions etc are in place? Worth also requesting info from the freeholder too.

Fern123

Thanks Mallotum X.

We have asked our solicitor to look into this for us as per your advice.

Mallotum_X

Fern123 wrote: »

Thanks Mallotum X.

We have asked our solicitor to look into this for us as per your advice.

At least you will know for sure. Then you can consider your options once you have all the facts.

It may also be worth asking your friend to have a look at the walls directly rather than just photos in case the photos are in any way misleading.

Good luck, and do let us know what you decide to do.

silvercar

On showing some photos of the roof terrace to a friend yesterday (a structural engineer), he commented that the walls on the roof terrace weren't high enough to be safe.

They would only have to comply with the regulations in force at the time the terrace was made there is no retrospective obligation to comply with today's building regs. Given that a certain time period has passed (I think 1 yr for building regs, 4 years for change of use), there is no action a council can take to prevent use that has gone on unchecked, though solicitors/ mortgage lenders often require you take out an indemnity policy just in case.

Fern123

Thank you silvercar. That's useful to know.

Yorkie1

I'd be concerned about whether the roof of the roof terrace is strong enough to bear the weight of residents using it as a communal roof terrace ... irrespective of whether B Regs may / may not have been complied with, how do you know it's safe?

moneyistooshorttomention

Yorkie1 wrote: »

I'd be concerned about whether the roof of the roof terrace is strong enough to bear the weight of residents using it as a communal roof terrace ... irrespective of whether B Regs may / may not have been complied with, how do you know it's safe?

My thoughts precisely.

I've seen a rented property near me change tenants numerous times and just about every household that ever rents it has the tenants out there sitting around on the flat roof part of it at some point. Me - I'm sitting there watching them with my mind totally boggling and feeling totally sorry for the poor landlord (as he/she has absolutely no way of knowing that his flat roof is being walked on and put at risk of damage so frequently). If the tenants want to take the risk of falling off a 3 storey high roof with no walls around it then that's their lookout, but I'd certainly contact the landlord if I were able to (in order to tell them their property is at such risk of damage if they don't block the window these tenants are using to access that flat roof).

I've lived abroad in countries where using flat roofs as part of the "living territory" is the norm, so take the view "If it aint got a standard concrete flat roof with a very obvious entrance point to it that people are clearly meant to use then it aint living space".

So the question is I guess: what is the surface of that flat roof constructed of?

EDIT: Guess it might be worth your while to google "images roof terraces" and see if this "roof terrace" looks anything like any of them for structure. There are some absolutely gorgeous ones there and I'm drooling looking at them...

moneyistooshorttomention

Have done some more googling and found:

"Rooftop and terrace gardens" by Caroline Tilston

on www.amazon.co.uk and there is one of those "click to look inside" features on this book and the "click inside" info. is actually pretty useful for you to have a quick scan of how to ascertain whether this roof space is suitable for use as a roof terrace.

Prothet_of_Doom

Whether or not the surveys have valued it right, would you even have put an offer in without the roof terrace. I guess that there were other properties which you might have gone for.

If you have no right of access, you could loose access before you move in. If you still want the flat, it would be sensible to pay less, because it clearly is worth alot less to you. Make an offer you think less than reasonable, and see if the seller will negotiate.

You risk loosing the investment in Surveys, etc, but think on 10 years, and you are trying to sell it, without said roof terrace.

MobileSaver

Fern123 wrote: »

he commented that the walls on the roof terrace weren't high enough to be safe.

I would clarify with your friend whether he really means the walls would not comply with CURRENT building regulations or does he genuinely mean they are actually unsafe?