Parking ticket on private land what to do next??

Guys_Dad

The_Slithy_Tove wrote: »

And you won't get one. GD probably missed the fact that you appealed directly to the Notice to Driver, so no DVLA request or NtK was needed.

Yes he did!

So go with the advice about what to appeal with.

ascot6

Hi finally got my POPLA verdict and they have refused my appeal.:-(
This is the reply i have received....

Reasons for the Assessor’s Determination
The Operator submits that the parking charge notice was issued for parking
without displaying a valid permit. The Operator submits that a parking charge is
now due in accordance with the clearly displayed terms of parking which state,
“Permits must be clearly displayed…at all times”.
The Appellant does not dispute that the terms of parking were clearly displayed.
It is the Appellant’s case that he is a lock smith and was attending a customer,
locked out of her home, at the site. The Appellant explains that the customer
showed them where to park; in the customers own designated parking bay. The
Appellant could not have access to the permit for the bay when parking as the
permit was inside the customer’s house. After receiving the PCN the customer
submits that they showed the valid permit to the Operator’s employee and also
called the helpline number which was closed and went through to an
automated pay line only.
Although I sympathise with the Appellant and find no evidence of dishonesty, I
am not able to take into account mitigating circumstances. An Appellant
feeling that he or she had good reason for breaching the terms of parking is not
a reason for which I can allow an appeal. When parking on private land, a
motorist freely enters into an agreement to abide by the conditions of parking in
return for permission to park. It is the motorist’s responsibility to ensure that he or
she abides by any clearly displayed conditions of parking. There is no dispute
that the terms of parking required that a permit be displayed.
I note the Appellant’s submission that their customer, who holds a valid permit,
advised them they could park in the space in question. However, that a third
party, not party to the agreement, mistakenly informs an Appellant that he or
she may park contrary to the clearly displayed terms of parking is not a reason
for which I can allow an appeal.
I also note the Appellant submits he called the helpline number, this should have
been utilised prior to the breach and not after.
Unfortunately, I must find that, by failing to display a valid permit, the appellant
became liable for a parking charge notice, in accordance with the terms of
parking displayed.
Accordingly, I must refuse the appeal.


What shall I do now??? I refuse to pay this and friends have said just ignore it, what are the consequences of doing this?? is it wise??

Cheers Mark

bod1467

Unfortunately you used a mitigation-based appeal. These NEVER work.

All you can do now is either pay up, or ignore all future correspondence EXCEPT a letter before claim/court action. As far as I am aware, CPM don't do court. That's not to say they won't though, since they have a POPLA win behind them.

jeanraffio

Lesson to be learnt for any people reading the thread that isn't the OP.

POST YOUR POPLA APPEAL ON THE FORUMS BEFORE SUBMITTING IT so that regulars can point you in the right direction.

This would have been a guaranteed win with the correct appeal.

Sorry OP, if you have the balls to stick out a potential court date then do nothing - otherwise it's hand in pocket time. Your decision.

Umkomaas

Since when have POPLA adjudicators had within their terms of reference the seeking of evidence or making any assessment of the motorist's 'honesty'. Unbelievable over-stepping of their authority - preposterous.

Although I sympathise with the Appellant and find no evidence of dishonesty

And if you take this case to its logical conclusion, the Catch 22 could mean that the lady is still locked out of her apartment.

A bad day for POPLA!

ascot6

Hi jeanraffio, would be interested to know what could of been stated in my appeal to change this decision?

ascot6

this was my original appeal

On the day the parking ticket was issued I was attending a customer who was locked out of their property and had called my Locksmith company Mark 1 Locksmiths, to assist in this emergency, to help her gain entry to her property number 144 Kingfisher Meadow. I parked my fully sign written van, in the designated space for the property after being shown to it, by my customer. I then proceeded to gain entry to the property for my customer which was on the first floor out of site of my vehicle.. On my return to my vehicle approximately 15/20mins I had received the parking notice. I then immediately produced a valid parking permit for that bay i was parked in, which was locked in the property, from my customer who had given me full authorization to park in her designated bay, to the warden who was still on site. He made a note of this and took a picture accordingly. I explained the permit was unobtainable when arriving as it was in the property. I then rang the helpline number on the parking notice on the wall to explain the situation, but they were closed and only an automated pay line was obtainable. The ticket was issued at 18.19, which is out of hours for the helpline. The customers parking permit was locked in the property upon my arrival, and I could not obviously display this until I had gained entry. I need my tools nearby, to be able to carry out a professional job and alternative parking was not available near by as this was in a gated area. I feel I did everything possible in this situation to avoid this parking charge. I had authorization from my customer who had the correct permit but this was unobtainable due to this situation. I had immediately shown the warden the permit as soon as we had access to it. I had called CPM but there was no answer so I could not be advised by them as what to do. Alternative parking was not an option nor available in the immediate location. CPM only issued my POPLA reference in a letter received today dated 15th August 2103. After I wrote to them requesting this in my letter dated 5th August 2013. They had not included it in their original letter dated 19-7-2013 when they dismissed my appeal. I have also requested their BPA membership number which they still have not supplied. I would be grateful if you can consider my grounds for appeal.

Guys_Dad

ascot6 wrote: »

Hi jeanraffio, would be interested to know what could of been stated in my appeal to change this decision?

Try this

"In addition, the charge being proposed is excessive and is not a true estimate of loss as it contains an element of operating costs such as wages, uniforms, office expenses that would still have been incurred even if my vehicle had not been present. I require POPLA to demand that the PPC supplies a breakdown of how the charge demanded is made up."

Coupon-mad

ascot6 wrote: »

Hi jeanraffio, would be interested to know what could of been stated in my appeal to change this decision?

You only had to ask in August:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62180281#Comment_62180281

You could 'of' won.

jeanraffio

ascot6 wrote: »

Hi jeanraffio, would be interested to know what could of been stated in my appeal to change this decision?

As has been stated above, your appeal centred around mitigating circumstances - this doesn't wash with POPLA. Saying 'I was doing a job', 'It was an emergency', 'I was told by xyz to park there' doesn't fulfil their criteria that you still needed a valid permit / ticket to park in that space. So they turn it down. Appeal lost.

Instead you should have concentrated on genuine pre-estimation of loss. In simple terms, this means that the PPC would have to prove that the 'fine' they levied against you actually cost that amount of you parking in the space and them issuing the ticket. They can't, not one PPC has been able to prove this. How can the PPC say that you parking in a parking spot for x minutes equates to a £80 value? They simply can't place a numerical value on it and therefore can't 'charge' that amount as a 'fine'. The landowner / PE have not lost £80 by you parking there - so them charging that means that they are effectively trying to profit by £80 = case thrown out by POPLA.

So effectively you're not complaining against the actual act you committed, but the fact that the PPC has chosen to put a hugely inflated cost against what you have done. There are various other factors that you can use to support your POPLA appeal (lack of signage / failure to enter into a contract etc) but GPEOL will always win, as it has done for the 100s of people that have used it after having their appeal checked on this forum since early 2013. Not one has lost.

Hope that helps you and others. Remember there's no obligation to pay after losing POPLA, but fully expect to be summoned to court to fight it there if you don't.