Food Business- Anyone ?

tzzt123

Hello,

Hopefully there is someone here who is in the food business? I don't have much experience, however I do have a recipe that's been in the family for a few generations and I was interested in testing it. I contacted the council to get a licence - it's all very simple, only there is one very important thing I am not 100% comfortable with.

They asked me what the recipe is and said they don't sign NDA's. They didn't expect quantities but do expect the list of ingredients.

I don't know how this works but I wonder if Coca Cola or KFC had to share everything without any agreements? How do I protect myself in this case ?

Thanks

lincroft1710

Since the ingredients of a food/drink product are listed on its container label, everyone knows what's in the make up.

tzzt123

That's not exactly correct. At this stage, since we're only testing it, there will be no need for a label. You only need a label if you're selling more than a certain number of units per month.

Coca Cola does put a label on its products, yet the formula is still secret.

[Deleted User]

Are you saying that the Council have asked you what your product is and have requested a list of ingredients?

Are you a simple food business? What is your product in simple terms?

I'm in the food business and I can't understand what and why you are being asked.

I can't understand why you need to disclose your recipe to the Council. I have never heard of this and since you are not selling it yet.

I have always known registration to take place regardless of the product. I know there are different rules for meet and fish factories.

Maybe the officer needs simple information, such as "will you be using raw meat". I know this is included in the Safer Food Better Business Pack and would need to be disclosed in order to prepare the correct risk assessments and workbooks. But here we are talking brief details only.

Final point - if you are not selling yet, why register? And if you are not selling you could register and simply tell them the same. In that case they can only check your workbooks and state of your kitchens.

tzzt123

It's pretty simple. It's a recipe for a burger that has ran in the family for a few generations. We're going to give it a test run and sell it in farmers market and so on to see what people said.

Those markets require hygiene certificate - the one I applied for and the council said they wanted me to do a a level 2 course and hand over the recipe (without the amounts) so they can see it's "OK" even though I told them it was sensitive information and asked them to sign an NDA.

There is no business or a plant involved here, it's for now at least only making the products at home and sell them at the farmers market.

Savvy_Sue

I'm not in the food biz, but let me just say I think I'm glad to hear that a council is asking for a list of ingredients. I'd quite like to know that the secret ingredient in anything I buy at a farmer's market doesn't consist of eg the "'erbs" commonly smoked around my place of work (although I believe it's more common for them to end up in cakes).

Mind you, how they'll know whether what you provide to them is what you'll actually use, I'm not quite sure. And you will have to have the list available to customers, because there are people who won't buy without because of allergies etc.

So, if you want to do this, prepare the list. Do you honestly think there's someone in the council just waiting to start their own biz from your family's secret recipe?

[Deleted User]

Okay - well I think the request for ingredients comes because you are making a meat product - so that's where things are slightly different.

You are not simply registering a food business, you will be a "meat production business", it's very different and so are the rules. There are lots of regulations and lots more rules, I think the registration process is also very different.

So as I'm just a food business owner and not a "meat production business", I won't be able to help as much.

https://www.gov.uk/meat-and-meat-hygiene


If for example you were buying the same and cooking it you would not need to provide this information.

In any event I don't think giving the Council a list of ingredients is going to cause you risk - maybe you could take action if indeed anyone did take the idea.

As for Level 2 training, there is no legal requirement to take the course or the exam, the legal requirement says that you need to be trained - trained to the same level as level 2 would give you.

A good e-learning Level 2 site can be found online and you can take the City & Guilds exam for about £19.00.

Due to the nature of your business and because you will be the manager/ owner? I'd suggest you could really do with Level 3, again this is online for a cost of about £60.00.

The basics can all be found online on the FSA website and you may choose to look at the pack "Safer Food Better Business", unless you have your own version you will need to complete this as a minimum and provide risk assessments for everything that you do. You will also need to provide trace for all of your ingredients.

HTH - Also hope your business does well and if you aren't too expensive point me in the direction of your product :-)

tzzt123

@Savvy_Sue: I definitely agree that it's good that the council or that someone is monitoring what goes into products. What I wasn't comfortable is was the fact sensitive information (the recipe) would be unprotected. As there is no NDA agreement, nobody promises me the council employee wouldn't go home and experiment and make the product on their own.

While this could be a small risk, you wouldn't expect Coca Cola to do the same without knowing their formula is protected. Same goes for every business with sensitive information.

lincroft1710

I don't think council employees are going to waste time trying to make a product which is unknown to the market and then have to try to sell it.

It's a burger, Mcdonalds, Burger King etc sell millions daily, you would need a very dedicated person (i.e. yourself) to attempt to penetrate a very saturated market.

tzzt123

@lincroft1710 That's correct, but only 99% correct. Once again, the Coca cola, fast food, and even the squash market is extremely saturated, yet it doesn't keep anyone from trying to compete.

And protecting sensitive information is not about a saturated market, it's about thinking smart and minimizing the risk. If I actually have a unique recipe (and this is what we're going to test) then it could be valuable, there is no need to spread it around even before I started selling it.

I only want to make sure that person in the council is going to keep the information safe and not go home, cook the burgers, realize it's cool, and put it all over the internet.

[Deleted User]

The Council has an obligation to keep your data safe anyway. However I think that anyone can request information under the FOI Act, so it could be possible for people to get hold of your information.

But really, will anybody notice the unique product that it is?

Oh and you didn't even reply to my post! And no thanks! RUDE

It strikes me that you are just looking for a fight with the Council, but if you !!!! them off you will be very sorry! I can tell you that you need them on side.