sold an illegal car and offered a dodgy replacement - refund refused

tobyl

I know I should have had it checked and I know I have been so so stupid but I purchased a used car on July 14th 2013. I put £20 of fuel in about 2 mins away from collecting it and smelt fuel so thought it was heat or had spilt a little

After 3 days the smell was still there so rang up and they said bring back for fixing. I was without the car for 3 days while being fixed and went to collect - however the repair garage (who had told me a fuel hose was loose/off and car could have gone on fire) said although they checked the car seller had not returned it for further checks after they supposedly test drove it.

I collected the car and took to a local garage for a check. They couldn't check car fully as bonnet was jammed down and cable broken. The climate control didn't work as although pipes were there the radiator for it had been removed. It also still smelt of fuel and I was told without bonnet being opened they couldn't fully have checked fuel problem. I decided to reject the vehicle on basis of sale of goods act 1979 and returned car to garage where owner took me to repair garage. He would not entertain a refund despite my local mechanic being present and saying the only way to get to engine was break front grill. Salesman said he would get repairs done it would take a week and although he could provide a courtesy car he wouldn't as I had done things the wrong way by turning up at his garage unannounced. While we were at the repair garage the repair manager let slip that the bonnet had been broken before it was sold to me. The garage owner was silencing him. My son has captured much of this on phone video.

That night at 10.30 pm he sent a text offering me another car (think he realised how costly repairs would be) which I had test driven at time but had rejected partly as they didn't have the V5 document present. I was advised this was a reasonable offer and to consider this car as an exchange despite having written a letter requesting refund under SOGA but only after an RAC inspection. This went ahead today and the news isnt good. I know I have been horribly scammed and have put in writing to seller my reasons for rejecting the original car and asking for refund but no answer to letter which garage signed for and also I hand delivered a copy when returning car.

Trading standards haven't bothered to contact me the citizens advice have said I couldn't start small claims court action yet as I have to be seen as more reasonable and write more letters. They actually advised me to keep the vehicle as a bargaining tool but you could smell petrol even when parked up outside it so I was scared to leave it on the public road in case someone smoked near it. This garage is on the high street and I can't think why nobody seems to be bothered that he has sold a vehicle that isn't fit for use.
The RAC told me the car didn't have a VIN number on door, had been in accident, needs a chassis alignment test, the report it horrendous to read so this isn't an adequate replacement. I just want my money back. I rang the owner tonight (he was screaming at me down the phone yesterday saying he was only doing anything due to me having a son) to ask for his email to forward a copy of the RAC report but he was obtuse saying it was his day off, he was with his family and I was disturbing him!
I don't know what to do - I run a small business dependent on a car and it's just so wrong what he has done

Head-Out-Of-Sand

Hi Tobyl,

What a nightmare, is this a chain or an independent dealer?

I had a dodgy car sold to me by a dealership last year - from all the reading up I did, it seems that stonewalling is a pretty common tactic.

My return took approximately 4 months, but I did eventually get my money back. Just be aware that this is often just a 'game' to dodgy dealers, who will almost certainly be well aware that they are in the wrong, but know that if they stonewallor iintimidate people many will give up, they've got the money in their bank for a substandard car, job's a goodun.

Keep in touch with citizens advice & trading standards - they are right that you need to demonstrate that you have given the seller reasonable chance to fix the fault (my car was bad but nperhaps legal beagles on here can advise if there are circs where the chance to repair is not relevant, e.g. if car is very dangerous).

I would suggest getting some independent legal advice if at all possible, but from my experience I woul d recommend:

- do everything in writing from this point - you need a record of your correspondence about the car. If it ends up in court you need to have evidence that you have given the dealer every reasonable opportunity to respond and resolve the issue

- keep a time line of the dispute e.g. date bought, date issues arose, dates of any contact with the dealer etc

- keep in touch with citizens advice and trading standards as the dispute progresses. They were invaluable in my case. Are they a ware of the stuff about the VIN number? If the car is a 'cut & shut' job im pretty sure that's a criminal offence?

- look up your rights so you know where you stand -sale of goods at if you bought outright, supply of goods (implied terms) act if on HP. Trading standards have a lot of info on this.

- stop driving the vehicle if you state you are rejecting it - im guessing you have already stopped?

- try to see it as a game. Take the advice of CA/TS and keIep evidence that you have followed it. You are entitled to be sold goods that are fit for purpose, in a satisfactory condition (taking into account the age and condition) and as described. If this dealer is as dodgy as he sounds, you won't be the first person he's sold a c**p car to and you won't be the last. From his point of view, until he's got no choice to back down it's in his interest to frustrate you and be rude and try to make you give up. See this game for what it is, stay calm and keep asserting your legal rights.

Good luck - keep checking in to let us know how you're getting on.:)

Strider590

You need to move fast on this one, sounds like one of these car dealers that pops up, sells some dodgy cars and then disappears. Quite a few have done this around my area, even a used Ferrari dealer that was selling customers cars (in for service) over and over again illegally before disappearing.

Unfortunately I can't give the advice you may need without this post being deleted.

But if there's a chance that they only ever pay for stuff in cash, use alias names and don't exist on the "system", they could disappear never to be seen again.

tobyl

thanks for the replies. Strider590 could you send a PM with the info you said you couldn't put on message?
He is using aliases, as I was waiting in his cabin yesterday and found 3 different names, also a Bailiffs letter for unpaid council tax at a house address. He point blank refused a refund and reverted back to the original car was being fixed (the one with the fuel leak, the broken bonnet cable and the missing radiator for the climate control)
So far am £3700 out of pocket (including RAC inspection on 2nd car)
I feel I am going to waste more money going to court for someone who can change the garage name or disappear over night.

TradePro

tobyl wrote: »

He point blank refused a refund and reverted back to the original car was being fixed (the one with the fuel leak, the broken bonnet cable and the missing radiator for the climate control)
So far am £3700 out of pocket (including RAC inspection on 2nd car)

Whilst the fuel leak could have been a disaster, luckily it wasn't.

The 3 problems with the car are very minor in terms of getting them repaired, you obviously originally liked the car as you decided to buy it, just have him fix the three faults and move on.

TradePro

tobyl wrote: »

I know I have been horribly scammed

I'm not sure you have.

It could be a loose jubilee clip on a fuel hose (as mentioned before, I agree that it could have been a disaster), a £10 snapped bonnet release cable (common problem on a number of cars), and at some point a stone has probably hit the A/C condensor and damaged it.

tobyl

TradePro wrote: »

Whilst the fuel leak could have been a disaster, luckily it wasn't.

The 3 problems with the car are very minor in terms of getting them repaired, you obviously originally liked the car as you decided to buy it, just have him fix the three faults and move on.

Apparently the radiator for the climate control is very expensive, I don't know about the bonnet cable or what the problem with the fuel system was but my local garage said it would be 1500 -2000 pounds repair which is a lot on a 3,500 car so not minor really.

He has had car over a week now and these so called repairs on ongoing......I don't even know where the car is

adouglasmhor

tobyl wrote: »

Apparently the radiator for the climate control is very expensive, I don't know about the bonnet cable or what the problem with the fuel system was but my local garage said it would be 1500 -2000 pounds repair which is a lot on a 3,500 car so not minor really.

He has had car over a week now and these so called repairs on ongoing......I don't even know where the car is

How do they know the climate control unit is missing if they can't get the bonnet open?

tobyl

Oh and the front chassis is bent - local garage said only way to get to engine was to break front grill. Problem is I took it to seller for fuel system to be looked at and they said it was rectified but it was still reeking of petrol so that's why I took it to another place where they discovered the climate control radiator was missing, pipes still there but no radiator........seems very odd

TradePro

tobyl wrote: »

Apparently the radiator for the climate control is very expensive, I don't know about the bonnet cable or what the problem with the fuel system was but my local garage said it would be 1500 -2000 pounds repair which is a lot on a 3,500 car so not minor really.

Well, as is often the case around here, we have no idea what car we are talking about!

I have randomly chosen a 2006 2.0D Mondeo for a condenser price;

http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Ford_Mondeo_2.0_2006/p/car-parts/car-cooling-parts-and-car-heating/air-conditioning1/air-conditioning-condenser/?222560081&1&aedca1cf8ba145be3e739ada56cfdfc036fc4a64&000382

a) £1500-£2000 sounds very wrong

b) it's a £3500 car - 50% of them will have faulty A/C!

c) The man has offered to fix at no cost to you

So yes, minor.

tobyl

I guess from underneath when it was on the ramp - it's an mot testing place as well so I think they did what they could but couldn't open bonnet