subtenant issues

Hudson1984

after some advice.

I currently rent a property and this time last year was given permission to sublet to a new occupant - said occupant failed credit scoring and was denied however I accepted the risk and with permission have been collecting her share of the rent and passing it onto the landlord, whereby all rent comes from my bank account irregardless of if occupant ever did not pay.

for the last year this has been fine.

now I am moving (this being due to a change of subtenant circumstances) we agreed to leave the property at the end of this month as such giving notice to landlord and leaving on the 28th. I will actually be leaving on the 16th.

I requested the subtenant move on the 24th to allow ample time to clean and clear the property and give keys back to agency in preperation for new tenants and being it is a bank holiday weekend it would make it difficult to do this on the 28th.

this has been refused and I've now been informed that they will not be paying rent for the month and cannot move until the 27th and if i want any rent it will be reduced to cover for the early departure. I am still having to pay full rent so I have stated to the subtenant that all our bills remain the same and as such so does their share of the bill.

Unfortunately no agreements were signed and no deposit taken. where do I stand? ideally i'd like to evict the subtenant and hand my keys back on the 19th of this month (again i'll still have to pay rent upto 28th) can I do this? their rent was due today and has not been paid at all so in my opinion they are now squatting in my rental property.

any advice would be fantastic and no "should've got an agreement" i'm well aware of the should but i'm here now and would be very eager to find a solution.

BitterAndTwisted

If you share the same property and the person who lives with you has signed no tenancy agreement with the landlord, they are not a sub-tenant but your lodger. As such they have no security of tenure and you could choose to give them 24 hours notice that you want them to leave. Unfortunately, there is nothing much you can do to compel them to pay the rent up until you surrender your tenancy but you could tell them to go and then change the locks to ensure you can hand the property back on the date you have planned.

Hudson1984

ok cheers, i'm actually not bothered about the rent. I'm more bothered about my deposit so i'd rather evict them and make sure the house is tidy etc.

they have now paid their rent (reduced) and plan to leave sunday....lets see what happens eh?!

jamie11

Do not move out of the property and leave your lodger in there without a resident landlord. You could cause all sorts of complications for yourself and your landlord.

The lodger could then claim to have a tenancy by virtue of the fact there is no live-in landlord, it could take your landlord months to get them out and guess who he will be looking to for any shortfall in cash that happens.

Ending a tenancy means giving back the property with vacant possession.

Hudson1984

ok so basically I need to give them notice and make sure they have left.

I don't want to cause issues for my landlord but if I am to evict I want to do it legally

Hudson1984

ok so a little update, lodger has now moved out but still paid their rent as normal.

now she has stated that she will be keeping her key until 16th to enable her to collect mail and also given me bank details if I want to refund any rent.

Now I don't feel like I should refund anything as i'm not getting any discount for leaving early and as such don't see why I should pass on a reduction that I myself am not getting.

My query now is, there is a different lock on the front door I can use to make reentry impossible, am I entitled to use this? We have no agreement in place and short of an online argument nothing has been said to say she must leave today (that was her choice) I gave notice that she would need to vacate on 24th and still pay full rent, which is where the argument arose from, she has paid full rent and yet moved now and is expecting a refund.

Do I have to give a refund or anything. She is not on the tenancy agreement, and we have nothing signed.

Guest101

LEgally you dont have to do anything.

Morally i'd change the lock, return the over payment, and arrange to hand over any mail, suggest she sets up royal mail redirection (as its her responsibility, not yours or your LLs)

No she has no right to re eneter the property, you can give her 24 hours notice, so even if initially you gave until 24th, you have now changed that.

Hudson1984

it's the "return the overpayment" bit that I take issue with really.

Our bills and rent are payable to the 28th August and it has been her decision to move out today, I am moving out on the 16th and will not be receiving any rebate from the house owner so I am a bit against giving her a refund. This being said I am happy to share any rebates I do get i.e from council tax and utilities etc.

Morally I agree and I will feel bad for not giving any money back but at the same time I am not getting anything back either and her rent is used to cover the household bills I do not actually profit from it directly (household costs are £850 all included and her rent was £350 as defined by renting a room tax free government incentive) so I would be aggrieved if I gave anything back. Morally yes but what about legally?

*edit sorry your first line states legally I don't have to do anything. So I won't be refunding anything then - yes morally I do feel bad but then I am justifying it to myself by the fact it is going toward the bills as it does every month.

Guest101

Hudson1984 wrote: »

it's the "return the overpayment" bit that I take issue with really.

Our bills and rent are payable to the 28th August and it has been her decision to move out today, I am moving out on the 16th and will not be receiving any rebate from the house owner so I am a bit against giving her a refund. This being said I am happy to share any rebates I do get i.e from council tax and utilities etc.

Morally I agree and I will feel bad for not giving any money back but at the same time I am not getting anything back either and her rent is used to cover the household bills I do not actually profit from it directly (household costs are £850 all included and her rent was £350 as defined by renting a room tax free government incentive) so I would be aggrieved if I gave anything back. Morally yes but what about legally?

Your bills and rent go out on the 28th, she's not got a tenancy. And since shes moved out, she's no longer liable for any bills etc.

Could she take you to court for the overpayment? - possibly, but its unlikely, you could argue the final payment was her final share of the bills etc.

You arent getting any money back, because you are legally bound to pay the rent until the 28th, as per your contract with the landlord. Your lodger's agreement with you has ended, so is not liable for anything more.

Certainly I would be changing the locks, today, like now, as im typing. Because they may be agrieved enough about overpaying to come 'liberate' some of your belongings.

Hudson1984

my argument would indeed be that it was her final share toward the bills. the move was all initiated because of her redundancy and requirement to relocate so we had decided that this months payment would be the end of the agreement, she however changed her mind when I notified her that I need her to vacate on 24th instead of 27th.

ok, so legally she can take it to court but I should have at least a leg to stand on should she do so then?

Guest101

Hudson1984 wrote: »

my argument would indeed be that it was her final share toward the bills. the move was all initiated because of her redundancy and requirement to relocate so we had decided that this months payment would be the end of the agreement, she however changed her mind when I notified her that I need her to vacate on 24th instead of 27th.

ok, so legally she can take it to court but I should have at least a leg to stand on should she do so then?

Yes, absolutely.

(just so we're clear - personally i'm torn in your situation. Part of me would want to refund, and part would not, as there are outstanding bills)

However purely from a legal point of view, adding in common sense:

She has no signed agreement
She has limited lodger rights
Legal aid is no more, so it would cost her to take you to court

Based on these 3 points, i would argue it is not in her interest to take this further.

With all that in mind, you must also understand that Lodgers, are different from tenants, she could give you 24 hours notice she wants to go. She could even pack up her things and just go. You would equally be hard pressed to take her to court for any outstanding rent/bills or whatnot. I think you've walked away up in this case, and the person was abit naive, or very honest. Whichever way you look at it, you've been lucky.