So you think you know about dieting (small quiz)

esuhl

The butter will make you fatter.

Mr_helpful wrote: »

THE biggest misconception causing you to struggle with dieting and fat-burning is that all Calories are equal. Yes as a unit of energy they are but comparing them in different foods is like comparing Petrol to Diesel.

The fact is, the concept of calorie counting has many flaws. But one CRITICAL mistake makes it nearly impossible for you to lose bodyfat with this approach.

So what's the big mistake?

Calorie counting does not take into account the hormonal effect of food.

Sure, it’s the same 200 calories, but here is what happens hormonally...

When you eat the high-carb energy bar, your body secretes insulin in response to the elevated blood sugar. Insulin is a “building” hormone — in other words it is fat-storing. It takes the sugar in your blood and drives it into fat cells, making them bigger.

The butter, on the other hand, blunts insulin, leading to a more sustained energy release and a feeling of fullness. But that's not all, the butter actually sends signals to your body to BURN bodyfat.

So… same calories in both, but certainly not the same reaction in your body!

This information is freely available on google and if you want to see how different sugars are processed to become fat in the body I would recommend googling the bitter truth by robert lustig. Its long but quite easy to understand. If you are on a low fat or even low calorie diet it might be worth asking your consultant for the science behind it.

Well, I'm really no expert on nutrition, but I've read a couple of articles about Robert Lustigs findings, and... maybe I'm missing something, but I think your interpretation is wrong.

This article from The Telegraph only says that Lustigs considers sugar to be toxic and addictive because we don't feel so full after consuming it.

One of the most important things he says concerns what happens in your liver when you eat fructose. There’s a complicated chain of events, but the upshot is something called “leptin resistance”. Leptin is a hormone produced to tell us when we’re full; it’s the “satiety hormone”. When we eat too much fructose, leptin is sometimes switched off. We don’t know when we’re full.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/dietandfitness/9160114/The-bitter-truth-about-sugar.html

So, sugary foods may make us want to eat more (and thus put on more weight), but the original question was whether a 200 calorie energy drink or 200 calories of butter would by themselves make you fatter.

The following article from the New York Times explains how glucose from starch (e.g. potatoes or bread) is metabolised differently to fructose (which would be in a higher concentration in an energy drink).

Fructose is metabolised primarily by the liver, while glucose can be metabolised by any cell in the body. So an energy drink would put more of a strain on the liver, which can result in some of its sugars being converted to fat.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

But... butter is mostly fat anyway. So surely it's a lot easier for the body to store it as such?

So that's why I still think the butter would be more fattening. I'm not absolutely sure, of course!

1940sGal

Mr_helpful wrote: »

Not my opinion but biology's. The science and explanation is out there and I even said where you could find it.

I wasn't wrong, actually. There's far more to dieting than simple numbers. As you should know. It's never simply a case of 'this will make you fatter than that' because you're never only eating an energy bar or a load of butter.

Yes, the butter probably will make you fatter than the energy bar. But you never considered other things. You never considered the other nutritional content of the foods. You never considered the fat levels in both, for example. It's never only a case of how many calories are in each product.

Your thread title is 'So you think you know about dieting' but if all you're concerned about is how many calories is in something then you really know very little about dieting. You need to know about nutritional values, you need to know what your body needs and how it reacts to certain foods, you need to know what your BMR is according to your weight/height/age, you need to know about exercise and what suits your body best and what will work for you.

There are tons of stuff to know about dieting. Calorie count is just one thing.

Mr_helpful

esuhl wrote: »

Well, I'm really no expert on nutrition, but I've read a couple of articles about Robert Lustigs findings, and... maybe I'm missing something, but I think your interpretation is wrong.

This article from The Telegraph only says that Lustigs considers sugar to be toxic and addictive because we don't feel so full after consuming it.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/dietandfitness/9160114/The-bitter-truth-about-sugar.html

So, sugary foods may make us want to eat more (and thus put on more weight), but the original question was whether a 200 calorie energy drink or 200 calories of butter would by themselves make you fatter.

The following article from the New York Times explains how glucose from starch (e.g. potatoes or bread) is metabolised differently to fructose (which would be in a higher concentration in an energy drink).

Fructose is metabolised primarily by the liver, while glucose can be metabolised by any cell in the body. So an energy drink would put more of a strain on the liver, which can result in some of its sugars being converted to fat.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

But... butter is mostly fat anyway. So surely it's a lot easier for the body to store it as such?

So that's why I still think the butter would be more fattening. I'm not absolutely sure, of course!

In the lecture you can find on you tube if you google the bitter truth you will find Lustig explains the difference in metabolism between fructose and glucose. The most important part to remember is that sugar (sucrose) is 50% glucose and 50% fructose. yes there are differences between the two with respect to Leptin but also insulin. Insulin is made in response to glucose and starts building up cells. Fructose doesnt get picked up by insulin or leptin and doesnt either show up on a blood glucose test for diabetics. Insulin is a powerful building hormone leptin tells you when you have has enough. The end result of fructose metabolism is largely the building blocks of tryglycerides a type of fat)
Bad news for the 5:2 dieters is that while they are not consuming too many calories and sugar they may think and even be right that insulin levels are low during the fast but the moment a bit of glucose comes along out pops the insulin which is fairly obvious otherwise you are going to be lethargic and have slow metabolism.

Mr_helpful

1940sGal wrote: »

I wasn't wrong, actually. There's far more to dieting than simple numbers. As you should know. It's never simply a case of 'this will make you fatter than that' because you're never only eating an energy bar or a load of butter.

Yes, the butter probably will make you fatter than the energy bar. Other way round actuallyBut you never considered other things. You never considered the other nutritional content of the foods. You never considered the fat levels in both, for example.Er the butter is near on 100% fat what is your point It's never only a case of how many calories are in each product.

Your thread title is 'So you think you know about dieting' but if all you're concerned about is how many calories is in something then you really know very little about dieting. You need to know about nutritional values, you need to know what your body needs and how it reacts to certain foods, you need to know what your BMR is according to your weight/height/age, you need to know about exercise and what suits your body best and what will work for you.

There are tons of stuff to know about dieting. Calorie count is just one thing.

was it not you that simplified it down to 3500 cals equaled a pound in weight? This is of course rubbish because there are twice as many cals infat than carbs and protein
The reason the quiz said an equal amount of cals is that the weights would not be equal.
It is rather interesting that your diet is a calorie restricted one.
You are right that calories are not everything and there is more and the most important part of all is ones brain. If your brain wants you to be fat you will be and diets will always end in failure and frustration followed by putting it back on again. Your body creates the hormones and chemical that make you slow your metabolism or make you hungry
Diets as such are a waste of time and in most cases money. Some weight loss programs get fantastic results by telling you to eat more. How does that work then?

closed

neither as they are both 200 Calories.

Diets aren't a waste of time

they fail, because people stuff themselves afterwards, the one's that eat normally stay slim.

the doctor you are quoting also quotes that obese children lose weight by

stopping drinking cola/sugary fructose filled drinks apart from milk
exercising more
having to wait before requesting 2nd portions.

the classic calorie controlled/don't stuff your face and drink sugary drinks/exercise more diet.

it's so slanted to blaming soda for everyone's problems, well there were fat people before soda, and there are fat people who don't gorge on fructose.

Mr_helpful

closed wrote: »

Diets aren't a waste of time

they fail, because people stuff themselves afterwards, the one's that eat normally stay slim.

the doctor you are quoting also quotes that obese children lose weight by

stopping drinking cola/sugary fructose filled drinks apart from milk
exercising more
having to wait before requesting 2nd portions.



the classic calorie controlled/don't stuff your face/exercise more diet.

The doc I quoted was making the point that fructose carries in a lot of nutritionally empty calories that are never registered by the body.
The slimming effects of exercise have far more to do with hormones than the amount of calories burnt off by the exercise.
The reason people stuff their face after diets is that the body feels rightly or wrongly it has been starved of something. With many diets it is right as far as food is concerned. If you are dieting against your unconscious wishes you will eventually lose and put it back on again.
People who are fat are most of the time not lazy or over indulgent. It is just a case that the unconscious mind is running a kind of protection program where it sees things in a way where it is beneficial to be fat or it is being starved of something it wants so it hoards every thing it can

closed

neither as they are both 200 Calories.

As with most addictions, a little bit of self control works wonders.

Eating food, especially tasty food is a pleasurable experience, and it doesn't take many extra spoonfulls of calorific pleasure to build up a waist over months and years.

Mr_helpful

closed wrote: »

As with most addictions, a little bit of self control works wonders.

Eating food, especially tasty food is a pleasurable experience, and it doesn't take many extra spoonfulls of calorific pleasure to build up a waist over months and years.

So are you saying you think fat people are lazy , weak willed , over indulgent etc?

RichardD1970

Mr_helpful wrote: »

So are you saying you think fat people are lazy , weak willed , over indulgent etc?

Yes, (apart from the lazy bit ). As one of the "fat people" I would say most would agree that they lack will power and are over indulgent where food is concerned.

That is why we are fat!

It takes will power to motivate yourself to resist the nice stuff and do more exercise.

That is why I like the 5:2 as it doesn't require an iron will 7 days a week, 2 days is easy to do as you know the on the next day you can eat pretty much as usual.

closed

neither as they are both 200 Calories.

No I'm saying if you've just dieted, and achieved a comfortable weight, you still have to keep your eye on the ball about how many calories are going in the mouth, otherwise it will gradually creep back on. There is no automatic body calorie required and calorie consumed counter, so it can only be done by observation, if the weight creeps back on, eat a little less, and it wont, 5% too much over a year, an extra slice of bread a day or a bar of chocolate, probably adds up to a stone or more overweight, you don't have to be a glutton or lazy to be fat.