Possible Landlord harasment

kellyt86

Cody wrote: »

Also, I have been asking the LL for the signed document detailing our deposit scheme, which she has so far not provided, so I am concerned about the deposit return. Any thoughts.

Thanks

Cody

I have recently found (with the help of the fabulous forumers on here) that our deposit is protected with My Deposits, however I have never had a certificate or ID number. But I rang My Deposits helpline and they gave me the certificate number over the phone, which I understand would allow me to claim my deposit back should there be a dispute.
I understand there are 3 different deposit protection schemes and I think My Deposits is the largest. To check if its protected with them can be done at their website, by entering postcode, surname and month and year of moving in. Once you know which scheme you are protected with you can find your reference number by calling or looking for FAQs online.

Sounds like you've been reasonable in keeping your LL informed but I would try your best to find somewhere ASAP, and fingers crossed it is within the time period and if not you know you legally should have a bit of leeway before evicted though the courts.

I feel that as a tenant this is the situation you dread the most and the uncertainty that comes with being a tenant is horrendous!

Good luck OP hope you find somewhere soon!

[Deleted User]

Cody wrote: »

I'd be interested in peoples opinions whether she has any legal grounds to expect us to be responsible for her deposit to this builder, we have never agreed to move out on that date for example.

She has (unequivocally) no right to demand anything of you in this situation.

As has been explained previously a Section 21 should be interpreted as a notice from your landlord that they may seek possession of the property in the future, the normal response to a S21 would be to contact your landlord to find out what is happening and work something out, maybe they want the property back in 6 months but are being responsible and preparing early, maybe they have an interested buyer looking for vacant possession, maybe they can't afford their mortgage any more and have to give the house to the bank... however you do not have to do this, you can ignore the notice if you want it makes no real difference to your day to day life. While ignoring something like this isn't particularly adult behaviour it's your right to do so.

If your landlord is being unreasonable (as is patently the case here) you have absolutely no reason to do anything other than remain in the property until you want to leave or the landlord has possession of the property returned to them by a court, which takes many months.

Although it might sound scary that a court is involved it's actually the opposite, the court protects you and your possession of the property, unless the landlord can prove that they have followed all the correct legal procedures to inform you that they wish to regain possession they have absolutely no right to possession. The court involvement exists to protect you from an unlawful landlord, if you refused to return possession of the property after the court decided that your landlord should regain possession then and only then does the eviction process begin, with court ordered bailiffs and what not. This does not happen straight away, you do have time to leave of your own accord, you're not going to wake up to a 6'8" tattoo'd man with one of your kids under each arm and your sofa at the kerb.

The bottom line is by entering into a tenancy agreement with you the landlord has given you possession of the property, they cannot arbitrarily decide that you must leave without following all of the legal procedures and without the approval of a court. If the landlord has decided she wishes to bring in builders without your permission then she has, quite frankly, made a complete idiot of herself.

Landlording is a business, you are a customer of a business, just because you can put a face to that business your landlord thinks it becomes some sort of two people in a pub buying each others pints type arrangement, it isn't. You are protected by law and it's absolutely unacceptable for your landlord to try and bully you. Do not accept the bullying.

1. Your landlord wishes to regain possession of the property
2. Your landlord has informed you that she wishes to regain possession
3. You have accepted this and have agreed that you will move out as soon as possible, your behaviour is lawful
4. Your landlord has decided that they want you to move out even sooner, she has no right to demand this

Communication is everything in a customer<->business relationship and cutting off communication is not ideal but if your landlord continues to bully you like this then you can just ignore everything she says, because if you're already planning your move elsewhere (and can't magically rush it) then nothing you say and nothing she says is going to change anything. If you're going to have left the property within 2 months then the court process won't have any bearing on your situation.

If I was in your situation I'd send an email explaining "I can confirm I will have vacated the property by September 30th 2013, from this point on I wish to have no contact with you or any agent of yours, I will not allow any entry into the property by you or any people working on your behalf.".

The law is on your side, don't be bullied.

Cody

Thankyou All!

I have just followed some of your advice and informed the letting agent that we will be vacating the property before the end of September. We hate doing this but it has proved impossible for us to move. We plan to make one more rent payment on the 25th, to cover September.

I am fearful however that the landlady will not return our deposit (its quite sizeable) and attempt to take it as compensation for us not leaving on her preferred date. Is there anything I can do to protect against this?, it is held in a deposit scheme so there is some protection there, but I fear that the LL will be very nit picky with the house (we have lived here for 5 years, so there is a bit of 'wear and tear', a few picture hook holes for example, but nothing major. Sure though she could make a mountain out of a molehill.

Thankyou in advance (again)

Cody

Mr_Moo_2

OK, you need to return the property in the same condition when you took it on, less 5 years worth of wear and tear.

As a starting point, do you have an inventory from when you moved in? That covers content and condition? Without this your LL will have problems justifying any deductions in from your deposit.

[Deleted User]

Cody wrote: »

I am fearful however that the landlady will not return our deposit (its quite sizeable) and attempt to take it as compensation for us not leaving on her preferred date. Is there anything I can do to protect against this?, it is held in a deposit scheme so there is some protection there, but I fear that the LL will be very nit picky with the house (we have lived here for 5 years, so there is a bit of 'wear and tear', a few picture hook holes for example, but nothing major. Sure though she could make a mountain out of a molehill.

A deposit that is protected in a scheme cannot just be taken (in full or in part) if the tenant objects. If the tenant objects to deductions then the deposit protection scheme arbitrators will mediate and make a decision based on evidence.

The onus is on your landlord to prove that you are responsible for any damage they want to charge you for. The most important thing that a landlord needs to prove damage is the result of the tenant is a signed and dated check-in inventory that demonstrates the condition prior to the tenancy that the tenant agreed is accurate. Did you landlord perform a check in inventory that you signed?

Tenants have a right to fair wear and tear and landlords cannot seek betterment, this means that if you have lived in the property for 5 years there is an expectation that there will be carpet scuffs, marks on the wall and general wear and tear. Damage that is beyond fair wear and tear (for example cigarette burn holes in a sofa) can be charged to the tenant however the landlord cannot seek the full value of the item, they can only seek the cost of returning that item to the state that it should be in after the tenancy, if the tenants hadn't damaged it.

The worst thing that your landlord can do (if there is no serious damage beyond fair wear and tear) is tie up your deposit for a month or two in the arbitration process, so don't rely on the deposit being in the bank until long after the tenancy has ended.

Werdnal

However, LL can opt out of the deposit scheme arbitration, and force tenant to use court action to recover deposit. This should still be straightforward though, and follow a similar process of the LL having to prove deductions rather than the tenant having to prove their innocence!

wannahouse

Cody wrote: »

Dear Forum;




The latest development is that we recieved an email this morning from the letting agent, containing an email from her explaining that she has booked builders for the day we leave and if we are not out of the house on that date then she will collect the deposit she has paid to the builders from us, circa £3400.
Thanks

Cody

then you have even more proof of a "forced" illegal eviction, so hold on tight to that email!!!
you can tell the agent that you will be recovering monies from her for trying to forcibly evict unlawfully, and also that you will take her for not protecting your deposit, (as it sounds like it has not been done?) amongst the many other angles you'll be able to get her on!

you have TOLD HER IN ADVANCE that you will not be able to vacate by the date she has specified, so if she books builders for that date, more fool her! what a tool!

she has NO RIGHT to get you out,until the court gives her possession...until then, it is lawfully your home...tell her to take a flying leap!
time to stop being so polite and put it out there with confidence that you know your rights, she is not acting lawfully, and she will be the one that loses in the end.
she will not get anything from your deposit from the dps, if you are up to date on your rent, and have not damaged the house.
moreover, you have lived in there for 5 years, with a heavier wear and tear consideration as you are a family with children, so with the depreciation on anything over that 5 years, of its useful life, and taking into account the number of people allowed to reside there on the lease, she will find it hard to make much monetary deductions from you!

Cody

Thanks!

I'm one for a peaceful life to be honest, and thought of telling LL I will be asking for monies for her unlwful attempt at eviction scares me a little, tbh. Is this common?

She has just responded as well detailing we will be expected to pay her legal costs for obtaining a possession order. I expected she may do this, but again fear these might spiral (she might decide to use a £500 / hour solicitor...?)

Is there a cap on what costs incurred can be made the tenants liability?

Cody

onamissionEU

When did your tenancy start? If it started AFTER April 2007 your LL is required BY LAW to put your deposit in one of the govt backed deposit schemes (Applies to England & Wales, not sure about Scotland). If she has not protected your deposit (Within 30 days of tenancy starting) she has broken the law and your S21 is INVALID.

Aside the fact you could sue her for 1-3 times the value of the deposit this means your LL's application to the court for posession will be thrown out of the court and she will have to protect your deposit before issuing a new S21 (meaning another 2 months wait before she can apply for possesion).

Do you know if deposit has been protected? You should have received the relevant documentation shortly after the start of the tenancy? I think there are only 3 or 4 schemes - google them - and you can look up online if either of them have your deposit.

Whilst I do not agree with staying on past your notice, your LL and LA are behaveing very unprofessionally and childishly - they can not, therefore, expect you to behave any differently.

Also, if your deposit has not been protected according to the law then I would let your LL and LA know that you will be witholding further rent payments until it has either been returned to you in full or protected & that you are considering seeking damages (1-3x deposit) according to the law.

Herbalus

Cody wrote: »

Thanks!

I'm one for a peaceful life to be honest, and thought of telling LL I will be asking for monies for her unlwful attempt at eviction scares me a little, tbh. Is this common?

She has just responded as well detailing we will be expected to pay her legal costs for obtaining a possession order. I expected she may do this, but again fear these might spiral (she might decide to use a £500 / hour solicitor...?)

Is there a cap on what costs incurred can be made the tenants liability?

Cody

She's attempting to scare you out. If she is sending legal threats, then it might be time to respond with a similar letter, detailing that you are legally entitled to be in the property until a possession order is granted or you leave, and that the threat of illegal eviction will not be looked at favourably by the court. Tell her there is no obligation for you to pay the builders and you will not be doing so.

On another note, if you are out of the property before end of Sept, any money she's spent on a possession order will be a complete waste for her - she can't get a possession order if you've left, and you can't possibly pay her costs (not convinced you are liable anyway) if there is no possession order!