Another shill bidder - do all sellers do this?!

porto_bello

RFW wrote: »

I've said I agree it is a problem, just not so much a criminal one as you think.

I'm guessing you're a mostly seller and respectfully suggest that I'm probably both more likely to spot evidence of shill bidding and more familiar with the (at least several) ways to try to spot it...
If I am prepared to spend £200 on an item, I'll have a good look at a seller's account - not just for shill bidding. Sometimes, there are some clear, worrying indicators that cause me to move on. And sometimes shill bidding is so obvious that I wonder how long eBay can go on avoiding the issue.

RFW wrote: »

You mention helping Trading Standards, quite insightful. You also mention the seller was later removed from Ebay, presumably there was no prosecution?

I submitted the details via email, then some weeks later, out of the blue, (by phone) got a request to help. Before helping, I wanted to be assured that what I was spending quite some time on would actually lead to something. I was assured the strength of the evidence would definitely lead to TS action, although TS would not be more specific. I have no idea what specifically happened, but clearly, for those lucrative accounts to suddenly evaporate, something did.

RFW wrote: »

There is another point regarding shill bidding, that it actually has a detrimental effect on price. There is no way of knowing if an item sold by someone increasing his own price would have had other bids from genuine bidders to reach the same price.

So your argument that the shill bidder made over £1000 per month doesn't hold water.?

Sorry, this is just not true.

Typically, all but the last genuine bidder on an auction would stop well before the final price, which is when the shill bidder would engage, pushing the last bidder upwards. Sometimes he would push it too far, so he would immediately make a second chance offer, explaining that the winner had cancelled. [This is the (failed) tactic he tried on me]. Often, an item that would have honestly sold for £30 would go for £80.

He would usually shill bid only if it was an item worth shilling. Typically he would make an extra £30 - £90 on an item. It only requires 20 items to make £1,000 in a month and he was shilling on perhaps a dozen items at any one time.

Over the 3 months I was analysing and reporting, he made AN EXTRA shill bidding profit (over and above the selling price when the real auction ended) in excess of £1,000 pcm. And he had been using the same shill id for years.

RFW wrote: »

When I was an auctioneer, there was a competitor who was known for taking bids 'off the wall', I was not. On occasions when we had the same vendors I was told I achieved better prices. As we see on here people who suspect shill bidding look elsewhere, so the seller loses out on a bidder. If it was legal I would suggest that it is poor business practice and counter productive.

Most auctioneers can develop a sixth sense for how eager a buyer is and how far they will go. By the way, you don't mention it, but it's only in recent years that it became illegal to take bids 'off the wall'.

Here's a reminder of what professional auctioneers used to get away with: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NSnShgwG3U
[I'm guessing not every auctioneer gave up the habit, the day this practice became illegal].

RFW wrote: »

I think we can both agree that the best practice for suspicion of shill bidding is to report and find another seller.

Indeed, though this won't stop lots of honest people falling for shill bidding scams on eBay - eBay need to be forced to clean up their act, since they won't do it voluntarily!

notanewuser

They have another account too, it seems.

http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=hercerm21&ftab=AllFeedback&myworld=true

RFW

porto_bello wrote: »

Most auctioneers can develop a sixth sense for how eager a buyer is and how far they will go. By the way, you don't mention it, but it's only in recent years that it became illegal to take bids 'off the wall'.

Here's a reminder of what professional auctioneers used to get away with: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NSnShgwG3U
[I'm guessing not every auctioneer gave up the habit, the day this practice became illegal].

It's very easy for auctioneers to continue to do it and to do it within the law. You'll find in most Conditions of Sale a phrase similar to "the auctioneer reserves the right to bid on behalf of the vendor".

I obviously don't attend every auction in the country but would be surprised if it was a minority of them doing it, certainly the majority I attend do. Most buyers are not aware.

I'll agree to differ on the arguments of price and Ebay.