Debit Card Fraud

Hermione_Granger

In another thread you statred, you admit that in the past you have been extremely poor at dealing with finances, and if the bank were to take this into account when making their investigation, I can see why this may influence their decision.

A bit of background: I'm 24 years old, and when I was 18 I got a bit excited when I found out I could apply for credit cards, mobile phones and that ended up with me going for payday loans and really never being responsible when it came to borrowing and got myself in a bit of a mess.

I think honestly, this is the first time I've ever been in a position where I want to fix it all. I got my credit report from Noddle and CreditExpert just to find out where I'm at debt wise. Turns out it's about £10,000 debt with 2 CCJs - not ideal but can't change the past so oh well.

STomlinson

dalesrider wrote: »

So not only ATM but also online transactions.
Get the retailer details from the bank that have not debited and contact the retailers asking what delivery address they have for the goods.
Not quite sure what you expect the bank to do. They only know the same as you told them.

I love it with cases like this where the card holder expects the bank to know exactly what has happened. Yet cannot explain anything themselves to the bank.




To the bank this is as clear as it gets.
A. A new PIN requested.
B. Your card then goes missing.
C. You have no idea where or when. You have to explain what has happened to it, as you are the only person who can know.
D. Unused acc's are a major security risk. Especially if they have a balance or large overdraft.

Security checks are based on known fraud spending patterns. So if these transactions did not match that pattern then it would not be picked up.




But you cannot explain how or when the card/PIN went missing.




So how can they do that when its in the hands of a delivery company?
No had a new card & PIN been sent then the bank can hold the risk. In this case. As you have lost the card and clearly the person who took the PIN also took your card. So the risk lies with you.




This is true. But YOU have to explain where and when the card went.





NO. PSD gives the banks the right to withhold a refund when they believe that 1st party fraud or a clear explanation of what has happened is provided.

TBH.
As many others have said.
Who ever did this has had access to your house ( must be known to you). Has seen the PIN advice and then taken the card.
So you need to get the details of ALL the atm and online transactions. Including times made and where.
Give the police the ATM details and then chase up the online retailers yourself to see what details given.

Completely see the banks thoughts on this, and understand other posters on this thread too - but that doesn't help me in any way as, without speculating and dealing with only facts:

- My card has been used without my authorisation
- My PIN number which was ordered never arrived
- The debit card disputes team on several occasions tried to put words in my mouth as to speculating how I lost my card, who may have used it, etc.
- According to the Payment Regulations it is the banks responsibility to prove authorisation, and prove gross negligence - both of which they are unable to do. It is not my responsibility to prove that I did not authorise the transactions.

I have absolutely no idea where my card is, I have never received the PIN code that was issued by the bank and the card has been used fraudulently.

- The post could have been intercepted or the PIN number letter sent to the wrong address and whomever found it would know my address and could have entered the property and stolen my card.
- A visitor to my house could have done the same thing
- It could have been a friend or family member who has used my card without my permission
- The PIN number could have been guessed
- There's a chance I lost my card on the Friday when I stuffed the morning post into my bag when on the way to work and I could have lost the card along with the PIN advice slip at the same time

My argument isn't what has happened - I've contacted the police and requested the CCTV from the ATMs and also got a crime reference number so it's being investigated.

My issue is the Debit Card Disputes team that has all but accused me of being responsible for the fraud, tried putting words in my mouth, been patronising the whole time whilst I've lost £1,000 in a weekend which means this month I'll be struggling to eat, without having missed rent payments, bill payments etc.

It seems as though the Payment Regulations mean that the bank must apply an immediate refund in this scenario. Regardless of speculation, they cannot prove that I was negligent and cannot prove I authorised the transactions. Am I right?

jacques_chirac

You misunderstand the standard of proof they require - all they need to do is prove on the balance of probabilities that you were negligent. They overwhelming opinion here is that they have done this.

To ask again, what have you done to investigate?

I don't buy the bag story at all. In fact it entirely contradicts what you said earlier:

STomlinson wrote: »

I guess my point is that I really don't understand what's happened. It was a card that I rarely used and only went to check for it on Saturday as I was expecting a new PIN to arrive.

If you didn't look for the rarely used card until Saturday, you wouldn't have put it in your bag on Friday.

STomlinson

jacques_chirac wrote: »

You misunderstand the standard of proof they require - all they need to do is prove on the balance of probabilities that you were negligent. They overwhelming opinion here is that they have done this.

To ask again, what have you done to investigate?

I don't buy the bag story at all. In fact it entirely contradicts what you said earlier:



If you didn't look for the rarely used card until Saturday, you wouldn't have put it in your bag on Friday.

This has been the problem the whole time with the team I've been dealing with at Lloyds TSB, too.

When you're constantly asked "Where's the card, when did you last see the card, what happened to the card" all I'm doing is listing possible explanations. The gods honest fact is that I have no idea where it is and when it was lost other than knowing I must have last had it on the Sunday when I ordered the new PIN.

If someone's come in to my home and taken my card and PIN, I'm not entirely sure how legally that differs from me having my card pickpocketed after being shoulder surfed.

jacques_chirac

STomlinson wrote: »

This has been the problem the whole time with the team I've been dealing with at Lloyds TSB, too.

When you're constantly asked "Where's the card, when did you last see the card, what happened to the card" all I'm doing is listing possible explanations. The gods honest fact is that I have no idea where it is and when it was lost other than knowing I must have last had it on the Sunday when I ordered the new PIN.

If someone's come in to my home and taken my card and PIN, I'm not entirely sure how legally that differs from me having my card pickpocketed after being shoulder surfed.

So make a list of everyone that has been in your home and start asking questions. I can't believe it would be a burglar - they are going to take far more than a debit card.

themull1

Could the bank look on their cctv if the money was taken from a cash machine?

jacques_chirac

themull1 wrote: »

Could the bank look on their cctv if the money was taken from a cash machine?

It is not necessarily going to be their bank that owns the cash machine.

It would be easier to ask the bank to get the CCTV from one of the stores where the card has been used. That should not be difficult given the short time frame involved.

agrinnall

dalesrider wrote: »

So not only ATM but also online transactions.
Get the retailer details from the bank that have not debited and contact the retailers asking what delivery address they have for the goods.

I think from what has been said previously that it's services that have been purchased online (!!!!!! and gaming) so no delivery address would be required.

themull1 wrote: »

Could the bank look on their cctv if the money was taken from a cash machine?

I suspect most ATMs are not covered by CCTV. While people think that there is a camera inside every ATM watching who makes transactions, in my experience that isn't the case; at the bank I worked for none of their ATMs had a camera.

STomlinson

agrinnall wrote: »

I think from what has been said previously that it's services that have been purchased online (!!!!!! and gaming) so no delivery address would be required.



I suspect most ATMs are not covered by CCTV. While people think that there is a camera inside every ATM watching who makes transactions, in my experience that isn't the case; at the bank I worked for none of their ATMs had a camera.

The bank have said to pursue it as a civil matter, which I'm more than happy to do.

I guess I'm just absolutely ruined this month from what's happened and I was hoping the bank would help me more than it has, and looking to see if there are any other avenues or even if I have a case to escalate it within the bank for a refund whilst it's being investigated.

jacques_chirac

STomlinson wrote: »

The bank have said to pursue it as a civil matter, which I'm more than happy to do.

I guess I'm just absolutely ruined this month from what's happened and I was hoping the bank would help me more than it has, and looking to see if there are any other avenues or even if I have a case to escalate it within the bank for a refund whilst it's being investigated.

Why do you not want to pursue it via the police?