Bedroom Tax and Carer

LuBo

We are asking the council to reconsider their decision not to award us an extra room for a carer.
We live in a 3 bed house, my son has a room, I sleep in my own room and my husband sleeps in the 3rd room because of his disabilities (he gets mid rate care DLA).
My step daughter comes and stays 3 or 4 nights a week to help take care of her dad. On these nights I sleep on a camping bed in my husbands room and she sleeps in my bedroom (we were advised that she needed to sleep in a separate room for it to be exempt, she had up until now slept in the same room as her father).
The council have sent us a letter asking for medical evidence that my husband cannot sleep in the same room as me and proof that his daughter is claiming carers allowance for him.
As far as I can see it there should be no need to provide medical evidence that he needs his own bedroom because by their rules we need to sleep in the SAME room when his daughter stays.
Also his daughter does not claim carers allowance because she has a part time job earning over £100 per week.
From what I understand we should only need to prove that he needs a carer (which the mid rate DLA shows) and not that someone is paid to look after him.
I have found some info on the HB regs that cover a room for a carer:-

Is it at all possible to interpret the HB regs differently regarding the requirement for the overnight care (from a non resident) to actually be in place?
HB reg B13(6)(a)
(6) The claimant is entitled to one additional bedroom in any case where—
(a) the claimant or the claimant’s partner is (or each of them is) a ‘person who requires overnight care’;
The term “person who requires overnight care” is then defined by HB reg 2 as
“person who requires overnight care” means a person (“P”)—
(a) who—
(i) is in receipt of attendance allowance;
(ii) is in receipt of the care component of disability living allowance at the highest or
middle rate prescribed in accordance with section 72(3) of the Act; [ ]
(iia) is in receipt of the daily living component of personal independence payment in accordance with section 78 of the 2012 Act;
(iib) is in receipt of armed forces independence payment; or
(iii) although not satisfying either paragraph (i), (ii), (iia) or (iib) above has provided the relevant authority with such certificates, documents, information or evidence as are sufficient to satisfy the authority that P requires overnight care; AND

(b) whom the relevant authority is satisfied reasonably requires, and has in fact arranged, that one or more people who do not occupy as their home the dwelling to which the claim or award for housing benefit relates should—
(i) be engaged in providing overnight care for P;
(ii) regularly stay overnight at the dwelling for that purpose; and
(iii) be provided with the use of a bedroom in that dwelling additional to those used by the persons who occupy the dwelling as their home.

It does not mention that the carer must be paid.
On www.carers.org the definition of a carer is

A carer is someone of any age who provides unpaid support to family or friends who could not manage without this help.

Any advice on how I should respond would be appreciated.


LuBo

pmlindyloo

From what you say there seems to be some confusion in their thinking.

Asking about his medical condition seems to suggest that they are deciding whether they could award you the extra bedroom because his problems are such that you need to sleep apart. (I believe councils have discretion to make this award - there may even be different 'pots' of money for this and the carer aspect and they are deciding which 'pot' of money to use)

And, they are also asking about your daughter acting as carer. This seems to suggest that they are also looking at the extra bedroom for the carer and need evidence/ proof that she is actually caring for your husband. (see comment about different 'pots of money'.

Mmmm, seem to be covering both options to get you the 2 bed allowance.

Personally I would be writing to them and explaining exactly what you say here. You and your husband do sleep in separate rooms because................ I would also say that your daughter has a part time job and therefore is not eligible for Carer's Allowance but stays overnight for 4/7 of the week to allow you a break and to get some sleep. You might like to detail the caring that is required during the night time.

I understand what you are saying but hope that they are looking at both options to award the 2 bed rate.

What do others think?

LuBo

pmlindyloo wrote: »

You might like to detail the caring that is required during the night time

In the original claim I detailed all the help he needs and gets.

LuBo

princessdon

You need to see why it's not personal. Imagine if everyone said my daughter stays over 4 nights a week (when they don't), also not all with MRC need separate rooms.

I have problems with my stomach - 2 fistula bags and colo bags. The flesh eating bug that eats my inside out causes wind of a huge scale. The bags blow (up to a very high mike per hour) and soil the bed on a regular basis (during the day I get warning, at night they evacuate as asleep during warning). I sleep with my hubby, I need to feel his arms to sleep and if I had 20 spare rooms we'd sleep together.

It's not personal just a question one which IMO needs answered. Just reply.

enabledebra

The carer doesn't need to be paid or get carers allowance - they are just ways of supporting the claim that overnight care is regularly being provided by someone generally living elsewhere. As these two sources of supporting info aren't applicable you need provide other evidence to convince them of it.

As pmlindyloo says the issue of needing his own room isn't related to the extra room for a carer and you do need to back up the info that his daughter is staying over to provide care.

Housing_Benefit_Officer

Because Housing Benefit offices have been flooded with bogus claims for carers to avoid the bedroom tax of course Local Authorities can demand whatever evidence they think is necessary.

You also have to remember that we are not health care professionals and are unable to make medical diagnosis that someone's medical condition means they need a full time carer and they need to sleep in a separate bedroom. We have Auditors breathing down our necks demanding the evidence we have used to justify our decisions and if we make the wrong decision we could lose the subsidy we receive from the Government leaving the local authority to pick up the tab.

Although partners that sleep in separate bedrooms, irrespective of the medical need, would still only qualify for 1 bedroom. There is nothing in the current legislation to allow them 2 bedrooms.

Separate from the Benefit Legislation is a stack of guidance notes that we have to use. I will try and dig them out and post a link in a bit.

notanewuser

LuBo wrote: »

We are asking the council to reconsider their decision not to award us an extra room for a carer.
We live in a 3 bed house, my son has a room, I sleep in my own room and my husband sleeps in the 3rd room because of his disabilities (he gets mid rate care DLA).
My step daughter comes and stays 3 or 4 nights a week to help take care of her dad. On these nights I sleep on a camping bed in my husbands room and she sleeps in my bedroom (we were advised that she needed to sleep in a separate room for it to be exempt, she had up until now slept in the same room as her father).
The council have sent us a letter asking for medical evidence that my husband cannot sleep in the same room as me and proof that his daughter is claiming carers allowance for him.
As far as I can see it there should be no need to provide medical evidence that he needs his own bedroom because by their rules we need to sleep in the SAME room when his daughter stays.
Also his daughter does not claim carers allowance because she has a part time job earning over £100 per week.
From what I understand we should only need to prove that he needs a carer (which the mid rate DLA shows) and not that someone is paid to look after him.
I have found some info on the HB regs that cover a room for a carer:-
It does not mention that the carer must be paid.
On www.carers.org the definition of a carer is Any advice on how I should respond would be appreciated.


LuBo

I'm confused. You say you can't sleep in the same room as your husband, then say that 4 nights a week you do sleep in the same room.

You say his daughter cares for him, but she doesn't live with you full time and doesn't claim caters allowance.

I can see why they're confused!

Housing_Benefit_Officer

notanewuser wrote: »

I'm confused. You say you can't sleep in the same room as your husband, then say that 4 nights a week you do sleep in the same room.

You say his daughter cares for him, but she doesn't live with you full time and doesn't claim caters allowance.

I can see why they're confused!

Also how old is the other son?

And has the O/P ever claimed Carers Allowance?

Questions the Local Authority should be asking.

LuBo

notanewuser wrote: »

I'm confused. You say you can't sleep in the same room as your husband, then say that 4 nights a week you do sleep in the same room.

You say his daughter cares for him, but she doesn't live with you full time and doesn't claim caters allowance.

I can see why they're confused!

I didn't say "can't", I said we sleep in separate rooms because of his disability.
I have a very demanding job that require a high level of concentration, my husband is up and down all night and this disturbs my sleep, that is why we normally sleep in separate rooms.
His daughter comes 3 or 4 times a week at night to give me a break.

Also how old is the other son?

And has the O/P ever claimed Carers Allowance?

Questions the Local Authority should be asking.

My son is 19 and in full time education.
Nobody has ever claimed carers allowance.

How do I prove my step daughter stays?

LuBo

notanewuser

LuBo wrote: »

I didn't say "can't", I said we sleep in separate rooms because of his disability.
I have a very demanding job that require a high level of concentration, my husband is up and down all night and this disturbs my sleep, that is why we normally sleep in separate rooms.
His daughter comes 3 or 4 times a week at night to give me a break.

My son is 19 and in full time education.
Nobody has ever claimed carers allowance.

How do I prove my step daughter stays?

LuBo

I'm really not trying to be difficult, but if you're in his room when your stepdaughter stays surely you do get disturbed?

It's like my mum having my daughter overnight to give me a break but me staying in her room. If she woke I'd wake too.

LuBo

notanewuser wrote: »

I'm really not trying to be difficult, but if you're in his room when your stepdaughter stays surely you do get disturbed?

It's like my mum having my daughter overnight to give me a break but me staying in her room. If she woke I'd wake too.

As I said up until this week I slept in my own room and his daughter slept in his room,but the council advisor said that I must sleep in the same room as my husband and let his daughter have her own room for the purpose of having a room for the carer.
And yes I have been disturbed, the rule seems ludicrous.

LuBo

LuBo