SMART PArking PCN in Harlow

Tall_Ian

Hi, today I parked in the Wtaer Gardens Car Park in Harlow. They have a new system in place of ticketless car parking, with signs everywhere saying no need for a ticket, remember your bay number and pay at a machine. In each parking place is a sensor which senses your car being there.

At the machines it states, enter your bay number and pay for the length of your stay. Having never encountered this system before, I presumed that this was a more sophisticated pay on exit system, the sensor knowing how long you had parked for - no tickets to lose (great!), and presumably a ticket through the post if you left without paying.

So, I paid for two hour parking on my return to my car - ticketless parking means of course I have no evidence of having paid (convenient or what?) to find a PCN on my car. I go to the management suite to be told that I should have seen the sign on the way in which states "Park, Pay, Shop" and paid before I shopped. Aside from not having notcied that sign, I would not have taken it to be pay before you shop, but a system where you park, pay and shop. They claimed there was no ambiguity as it would otherwise have said "park shop pay". But anyway, they were most unhelpful, saying they could not cancel the ticket, they would not contact Town and City Parking who have the contract, and would not let me call them frm their office either. It turns out that the refund receipt I have states "Town & City Parking Ltd" (what a good thing I didn't use it in Asda so do have proof of paying!), but the PCN says "Smart Parking" - isn't that confusing?

On trying to appeal with SMART Parkikng, I cannot speak to anyone and despite being a computer generated PCN, it is not on their system yet (bet they'd take my money though). - now 15.48, tickert issued 12.50

As I have paid for my stay as I thought I should, what steps do I take now please? I certainly have no intention of giving these parasites any money, as nowhere did I see any signs telling me to pay before I shopped, just "pay for the length of your stay", which I interpretted to be at the end so I knew how long it was. If they are entitled to the money, what a complete and genuine con, have ambiguous signage so that you can overcharge!

Helpful advice gratefull received, as I am only just slowly calming down.

bazster

Well the first thing you do is stop trying to contact them. Seriously, DON'T! You'll only queer your pitch if you do get through to them.

Just calm down, wait until you get a Notice to Keeper in the post, and then come back here. We'll have some fun with them then!

And keep that receipt safe.

pumpkin25uk

Im quite interested in this thread, because 2 years ago i was passing through harlow to a job interview and parked my car near a small shopping area to use the cash machine (not from the area so unsure what its called).
As i drove in, big signs everywhere stating free for one hour, so nipped to the cash machine, took about 5 mins. About a year later i receive a letter telling me to pay a 50 quid fine as i had no ticket, so i chose to ignore it. Didnt hear anything else until march this year a letter from the courts, so i filled it out refusing to pay, stating firstly i was never issued a ticket and secondly the signs in big letters state free for 1 hour. Then a month later another letter the same as the first, its driving me mad. I feel like im going round in circle. It will be 2 years in august since i parked there, its bloody ridiculous!

Guys_Dad

The fall back is one of our regular appeals to POPLA.

You can try a soft, written appeal after you get the NTK just stating the facts. Don't be surprised if you get turned down and be sure to get the POPLA code.

However, if you are near there again, can you get a photo of the wording of the sign or even post up the wording here. Was there a clear sign at the entrance etc?

If you genuinely didn't see explicit signs,or if they were poor, then that is a great specific POPLA point in due course.

Tall_Ian

Sign near car says:
"Pay on Route Car Park
1. Remember Bay Number
2. Pay at Pay station
You are on Upper level"
and in small print
"please see signs for details"

That is it for that sign

Sign by stairs
As above, but with the addition:
"3. No need to display ticket"

I have photos on my phone of both, but don't know how to downlaod them from my phone.

Maybe I was naive not having come across a "pay on route" car park before.

Guys_Dad

Ok. Somewhere it must say about paying before you leave the car park. ("please see signs for details")

Where would that be and what size is the writing on the sign?

It is NOT acceptable if the signs are only on the Pay Station.

Coupon-mad

Just wait for that Notice to Keeper - as long as the vehicle isn't lease/hire/company owned - and then come back here. I think Smart in fact call their a Notice to Owner which is misleading and not complaint (a very good reason to wait for one of those, then!).

Tall_Ian

No - no signs I saw at all - and I looked around having received the PCN. I didn't even notice anything at the Pay Stations, although I suppose there might have been some very small print buried somewhere that I didn't see.

The main sign at the pay station didn't mention that either in the instructions. It was fairly small and I can't read it on my phone display, but it said something like:

Enter your bay number


Pay for the length of your stay


No need for a ticket we know you're here

I didn't actually spot the third phrase when I first looked or I might have realised the implication - but in my defence the Pay Station I glanced at was busy and it was a spaced out sign

The only sign I didn't photograph is the one as you come in "Park Pay Shop" - which I didn't see as I came in, but which the management staff said was the one that told me I had to pay before leaving the car park.

That is the entire signage which I could see - hence my complete confusion.

Nowhere was there a single sign which I could find, even searching after getting the PCN which said "pay before you shop" or equivalent - or I would have done so - hence my ire at being caught out. The cynic in me thiinks that they do it deliberately to get people - and then I think that mistakes happens more often than conspiracy and maybe it is so obvious to them they don't think. Maybe most people do make different assumptions to me - but why rely on assumptions for people to get it right? And anyway, in that case, if they are genuine and it is unintentional, why make it so tricky to deal with amicably there and then?

Coupon-mad

You just need to read some threads as no action is needed yet. Just learn about how to appeal when the Notice arrives in the post. Any threads will do!

PPCs are not 'genuine'. You'll learn about this scam as you read more.

atilla

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Just wait for that Notice to Keeper - as long as the vehicle isn't lease/hire/company owned - and then come back here. I think Smart in fact call their a Notice to Owner which is misleading and not complaint (a very good reason to wait for one of those, then!).

Interestingly, not so smart don't call the 1st letter anything. It is just a demand for money.
They try to pass it off as an NtK and we all assume that's what it is. Their actual
NtK or NtO, as they now seem to prefer, doesn't arrive until more than 28 days after the first letter. For an anpr claim that leaves them with something of a problem.

Tall_Ian

Well, finally dated 28th August 2013 I have received a "Notice to Owner - Do Not Ignore" - stating that the Contravention Date was 25th July 2013.

It probably says the usual - pay up the £60 within 14 days or they will pass it to a debt collection agency.

It does give me the option of appealing to them online or by post - but they will not deal with appeals over the telephone. Quite frankly though I don't trust this bunch of cowboys - it's like asking the lynch mob to decide whether they were right or not!

They tell me though that POPLA will not accept an appeal unless it has been lodged with them first - is this really the case? And if so, will they compensate me for the time and energy wasted contesting their illegal invoice?

Sorry - it's all questions, I'm used to dealing with noest, decent, reasonable people who are not out to con me.