Parking ticket Shrub Hill Retail Park Worcester

fido23146947

My son borrowed my car and overstayed the 50 minutes free parking allowance. As a regular user of the Shrub Hill Retail Park he didn't realize the time limit had been reduced. On checking the current signs (they are new) the 50 minute limit wording is quite small and can easily be missed. He feels the parking company should have made it clear (by using larger signs) that the time had been reduced. Is this grounds for appeal? Date of offence 06/07/2013, date letter received 13/07/2013. Overstay by 75 minutes. Charge £70. Other 'victims' have tried finding out details of planning permission, but have been unsuccessful in getting any information.

Coupon-mad

Same advice as on other threads you can see here if you just browse the forum, but here are two specifically about that car park:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4640115

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=79870

If the planning permission info is too hard to get, don't waste time, just do the usual thing, a challenge followed by getting help to win at POPLA like everyone here does:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62538357#Comment_62538357

And COMPLAIN RIGHT NOW to the Retail Park Managing Agent (details on the links).

bazster

fido23146947 wrote: »

Other 'victims' have tried finding out details of planning permission, but have been unsuccessful in getting any information.

Well they obviously didn't try very hard:

http://planningapps.worcester.gov.uk/portal/pls/portal/WWEB.RPT_DETAILS2.show?p_arg_names=reference&p_arg_values=P98L0376

The decision notice contains this:

No part of the development hereby permitted shall be brought into use unless and until a scheme
for the structure of charges for the use of the car parks has been submitted to and approved in
writing by the local planning authority.

Definitely worth an email to the planning department to find out what was approved and whether the regime now in operation contravenes the approval.

Also email the council's revenue department to find out if the revenue from the PPC "charges" has been taken into account when determining the car park's rateable value.

bazster

Fascinating. If you rummage deep enough you find that the council initially approved a barrier-controlled pay-and-display scheme. The managing agents later (in 2005) requested approval from the council to change to a scheme managed by Euro, the terms of which were:

- free parking for up to "either 90 minutes or 2 hours", with diners at Pizza Hut being exempt having left their VRN with the restaurant manager

- "information notice" to be issued for a "first-time offence" (yes it really does say that) with a £50 PCN for "subsequent offences" (yes it really does say that too).

This was agreed to by the council, but I can find nothing concerning proposals to vary this scheme nor the council's approval of any such variation, although the scheme now being operated is different in every respect. Someone local definitely needs to contact Worcester City Council about this. The documents are here (approx page 53): http://planningapps.worcester.gov.uk/images/dv_pl_files/P98L0376/Correspondence_4.pdf

There is a complete copy of Euro's proposal there. They proposed to charge the agents £282.59 per week for their services (basically a geezer with a gadget) and £1,796 for signage.

Euro's standard T & C's (in 2005) are also there, including the following:

Fines collected will be forwarded to the client on a quarterly basis net of a 75% management fee.

There is zilch about Euro being permitted to enter into contracts or pursue damages.

tom9980

This is the exact car park where i obtained my notice from euro, which was ignored and dropped before pofa came into force. It is completely ridiculous if they have reduced the time limit at this car park the only busy part is the bit outside pizza hut and i can tell you they rarely tell customers about leaving registration numbers!!!. I haven't see the changes here either yet because we rarely give them our business anymore. It would be about a week maybe more before i could check out the signs to see if they have indeed changed.

bazster

And another thing: the original charging scheme was done away with as follows:

- managing agent sends a copy of Euro's proposal to council, with a covering letter saying "can we do this please?"

- someone at the council replies by email "OK then".

And that's it! Seems a very sloppy way of going about it and I find it hard to believe that it's legitimate. The original planning decision stated that the charging scheme should be submitted to and approved by the council, it made no provision for the future replacement of the so-approved scheme with a completely different scheme (regardless of whether approved by a council officer), so surely another planning application should've been made?

Seems like the council has questions to answer too. Someone local might want to take all this up with their councillor.

fido23146947

Thanks for the replies. All very confusing. I'll make an appeal to Euro Car Parks and see what happens.

Coupon-mad

fido23146947 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. All very confusing. I'll make an appeal to Euro Car Parks and see what happens.

Really? Confusing?! I found it enlightening! It's now easy to take the matter up with the Council Planning Dept and with the Retail Park owner/managing agent, armed with the info the above posters have found for you.

But hope you did read the advice linked NOT to write a 'normal appeal', NOT to imply who was driving...

Jammer84

Hi guys n girls.

I've had a parking charge notice from over staying on this car park. Rather than appeal is just ignoring the letters a viable option here?

Thanks

Coupon-mad

Jammer84 wrote: »

Hi guys n girls.

I've had a parking charge notice from over staying on this car park. Rather than appeal is just ignoring the letters a viable option here?

Thanks

If it's Euro car parks you should be safe to ignore them as they don't do court (but then again we were saying the same about Parking Eye in 2012 and come 2013 they are now suing hundreds of 'ignorers'). And a small claim can happen up until 6 years after the event.

I much prefer to POPLA appeal option as it costs the scam firms money only to see their 'charge' crash and burn at POPLA.

Start your own thread or read any about sending an initial challenge.

fido23146947

I've just received the answer to my appeal to the parking charge levied at Shrub Hill Retail Park. Euro Car Parks have stated they have appropriate signs and that they don't charge penalty's [sic].

Therefore unless I pay the £40 promptly they will put debt collectors on to me or take county court action. If I appeal to POPLA and lose then the charge will be £70.

I can't take the risk of county court action and it seems the only option is to pay!

(And make sure my son does not park in that car park again).