Tenants in common, sale of part or splitting property?

Rupert_Bear_2

Thanks Daisy, I should have been clearer - I'm not being forced to sell, only to become a tenant in common with someone I don't know. I would have bought my cousin's share, but she won't sell to me. So I would like to split this parcel of land into equal halves - I keep my half and my cousin sells her half to the neighbour. They must have their reasons for disliking that option, but hey are not telling me what they are!

zzzLazyDaisy

Rupert_Bear wrote: »

Thanks Daisy, I should have been clearer - I'm not being forced to sell, only to become a tenant in common with someone I don't know.

That means you are being forced to sell!

In English law, both joint tenants (even tenants in common) each own all the land. At the moment the joint owners are you and the other joint owner.

For you to become a joint owner with A.N. Other, you and the current joint owner would be the sellers, and you and the new joint owner would be the buyers. It might not make much common sense, but that is the mechanism.

Also, be aware that if A. N. Other becomes a joint owner with you as a tenant in common - he won't own half the land, he will own ALL the land jointly with you. You can imagine all the complications that could ensue (and I suspect THAT is what they are not telling you!!!)

ValHaller

Rupert_Bear wrote: »

My cousin wants to sell her share in the land to the neighbour because he is also buying some other property from her that she owns outright. The shared land in which I have an interest separates her property from the neighbour's - hence her motivation in selling to the neighbour, not to me.

I do have the funds to buy my cousin out, and could certainly match the other offer. I can see that it would be unfair to insist on her selling to me when she has an interest to sell to someone else, but what is unfair about splitting the land?

This spells trouble to me.

In the normal run of things, provided you could outbid the neighbour, your cousin will struggle to do anything but let you buy her out. But I imagine her sale of the other property is contingent upon you agreeing to the sale of the jointly held land. So your cousin will be quite motivated to force you to accept her plans.

One of the dastardly things which could happen is that there could be some kind of side deal. When you first posted I was thinking that the neighbour was offering your cousin some money under the counter. But the knowledge that there is another deal in place suggests to me that something quite nasty could be pulled here. Your cousin could sell the land owned outright for peanuts and the neighbour could pay an incredible amount over the odds for the joint land - leaving you in the unenviable position to have to pay your cousin way over the odds to gain 100% ownership.

I think you need some heavyweight advice from a legal professional on how you could overcome that.

Aside from that, I think you need to get inside the head of the neighbour and understand what he wants out of the the bigger game. Does he want your land too? What does he want to do with the land? Does your plan to split the land scupper his plans?

Once you understand that, you will have more idea of how he is playing and how in turn to play him. As I see it, your cousin is not so much the problem as a pawn.

Mojisola

Rupert_Bear wrote: »

I own an piece of land as equal tenant in common with a distant relative. My relative decided she wanted to sell her half. I offered to buy my relative out, but queer old thing that she is, she has now decided that she would prefer to sell to a third party (the man who owns the land next door!). I do not wish to be joint tenant with a complete stranger - not least I worry that he might decide to spend money on maintenance and send me half the bill!

I have said I would prefer to split the land into two equal and separate holdings. Unlike a house or a flat, this is entirely feasible and I can't see why it should not be possible, but they are refusing with no reason given and now intend to go ahead regardless and there seems to be nothing I can do about it

If you do end up with half the land, is it still a useful amount, baring in mind that the neighbour may have plans to do something with his share?

Rupert_Bear_2

I didn't realize my cousin's plans entailed me selling my part to myself! That presumably means they can load legal frees onto me?... It is the complications alluded to that worry me - no complications with a land split, I would have thought.

I don't think the situation is quite as dastardly as Valhaller fears. I think the neighbour knows I would want to have a fair market sum for the land, given it blocks his access to the larger plot belonging to my cousin, and I understand from my cousin (who I think is too dim to be dastardly) that the neighbour is spreading himself pretty thin to come up with the money for her land. If he is at the end of his financial tether then the tenants in common suits him, as he only has to buy my cousin's half, not mine, and he has all the access rights he needs across the land.

Half the land is a useful amount as far as I'm concerned. I'm beginning to think I should just ring the neighbour up for a friendly chat, although cousin, naturally, would prefer I didn't!

zzzLazyDaisy

Rupert_Bear wrote: »

Half the land is a useful amount as far as I'm concerned. I'm beginning to think I should just ring the neighbour up for a friendly chat, although cousin, naturally, would prefer I didn't!

If you are happy to sell just half the land, I would do exactly that, have a chat with the neighbour. Of course splitting the land into two parcels and selling just half will require both you and your cousin to agree to this. If she is willing to agree to it, then she can do what she likes with her half afterwards, including selling it to the neighbour.

On the other hand, if he becomes tenant in common with you over the whole plot, he will be able to do anything he likes with the whole plot, and although some thing would require your consent - a lot of things would not. How would you like it if he drove his 4 wheel drive all over the land? You might not like it but you would not be able to stop him - it would be his land as much as yours.

ValHaller

Rupert_Bear wrote: »

I didn't realize my cousin's plans entailed me selling my part to myself! That presumably means they can load legal frees onto me?... It is the complications alluded to that worry me - no complications with a land split, I would have thought.[1]

I don't think the situation is quite as dastardly as Valhaller fears.[2] I think the neighbour knows I would want to have a fair market sum for the land, given it blocks his access to the larger plot belonging to my cousin, and I understand from my cousin (who I think is too dim to be dastardly [1]) that the neighbour is spreading himself pretty thin to come up with the money for her land [3]. If he is at the end of his financial tether then the tenants in common suits him, as he only has to buy my cousin's half, not mine, and he has all the access rights he needs across the land.

Half the land is a useful amount as far as I'm concerned. I'm beginning to think I should just ring the neighbour up for a friendly chat, although cousin, naturally, would prefer I didn't! [4]

1 Remember that your cousin has a lawyer working for her. Something has been cooked up between her and the neighbour - and the lawyer is just having a go at implementing it.

2 Best to fear the worst - it won't come as a surprise

3 So he may need to be inventive with his schemes and has probably tried not to involve you directly as he may feel you are less of a pushover than your cousin

4 I suggest you have a little think and then contact him

Is there any way the land can be divided so that your neighbour can have something which meets his purposes and you have something you are happy with? Would you need joint ownership or rights over any of it?

Rupert_Bear_2

Dear All,

I thought you might be interested in the outcome to all this. Basically cousin and neighbour seem to have got their way. Cousin's part has been sold to neighbour and the land has been registered in the joint names of the new neighbour and me.

The last letter I sent to the solicitor included:
- I had offered to buy my cousin's share in the land, but had been turned down with no reason given.
- I reiterated that I was happy to match the price he had been offered by the neighbour (incidentally almost twice the "value" used for registering the land).
- I reiterated my suggestion that the holding be split into two separate freeholds with no money changing hands. This could be achieved without any requirement for shared access, since the neighbour owns all surrounding land.
- I wrote that any trustee purporting to act on my behalf would be doing so against my clearly stated wishes.

Fast forward three months and the land has been registered. The solicitor's covering letter stating "as previously stated, it is now in the joint names of x and y (me)".

I have signed no forms and have expressly forbidden anyone to act on my behalf. Que sera I guess!

Thanks for all your helps in any case.

getmore4less

one for the Land reg rep.