Large finance deal agreed and then subsequently refused!!!!

OddballJamie

Wow all those cars on an average coppers wages. Gotta get myself down those police auctions.

Strider590

Weird_Nev wrote: »

What if someone has just worked really hard, and wants to enjoy the rewards of that in buying a new car?

Yes, but buying a car you see as your PAJ because your a bit of a petrol head, that's different.
It's the people that buy them purely to enjoy the pretence of being "middle class", it's just dumb, especially when they put themselves so far into debt to do it. Seriously, there are much more important things in life than keeping up with the Joneses.

motorguy wrote: »

Well thats my take on it too.

However there are some people who seem to only be able to reconcile their own lives against that by believing that the person who has just overtaken in them in that £60K merc 'cant afford it' and is 'stupid'. I think thats more of a poor reflection on them than on the guy in the merc.

I'll be the one doing the overtaking, £70'000 worth of German taxi, versus £5'000 worth of British built Westfield kitcar........ Built, not bought. You can shove your vorsprung durch technik!!!.

Weird_Nev

Strider590 wrote: »

Yes, but buying a car you see as your PAJ because your a bit of a petrol head, that's different.
It's the people that buy them purely to enjoy the pretence of being "middle class", it's just dumb, especially when they put themselves so far into debt to do it. Seriously, there are much more important things in life than keeping up with the Joneses.

That is your assessment of their state of mind. You are imprinting your beliefs onto their thought processes, about which you can only speculate.

It is their money, it is none of your concern.

motorguy

Weird_Nev wrote: »

That is your assessment of their state of mind. You are imprinting your beliefs onto their thought processes, about which you can only speculate.

It is their money, it is none of your concern.

Sums it up perfectly.

And to cast such a negative dispersion "oh they're only driving that to impress their neighbours" - i mean !!!!!!??

Strider590

If you don't get it, then you never will......

You can only see the surface of why human beings make the decisions they make, you don't understand the social influences, the subconcious decision making that we all do.

Take 2 friends, one buys a particular car, the other has a choice between two, but 9 times in 10, will ultimately pick the same one as the friend.
There's no logical reason for it, he/she doesn't even realise why they made that decision, but they did.

Scale that up and apply it to aspirations of social class, most people want what others have, but not just ANY other, they want what they perceive to be rich and successful people have. It's all subconscious, you don't know it's happening, most people go through life like this.

Stand back and ask yourself why you really want something, to every answer ask yourself "why?", do this 5 times and you'll be close to the real reason.

I could paste a load of links to help ya'll learn about this stuff, but you've already proven your not ready to listen.

anotherbaldrick

Yes ! but when as the OP's friend has found, your credit rating hits the buffers it rationalises your choice options.

oscarward

sorry, hijacked thread

GolfBravo

Strider590 wrote: »

I'll be the one doing the overtaking, £70'000 worth of German taxi, versus £5'000 worth of British built Westfield kitcar........ Built, not bought. You can shove your vorsprung durch technik!!!.

Just think about owning a car this way: a lot of people, including myself, own businesses (limited companies). This allows you to lease a nice car for 20-30% less.

How is this possible? Lets say you are a full time employee, with a regular 9-5 job. You get your monthly salary, but the money you get is just leftovers - the government have already helped themselves to 30% of your money (income tax, NI, etc). So to buy a £40K car you have to work really hard and earn £60K.

But then, you start your own limited company and, let's say, become a consultant (con + insult = consult ). You become a company director, and before you give the government any of your hard earned cash, you pay yourself first: company car, business expenses, directors salary (not too much, to minimise tax), company entertainment, sales incentives, etc. And from whatever is left over, you pay the government some taxes, and then also top up your bank account with a dividend. Suddenly the £40K car is just so much more affordable - your limited company (you) only has to earn £40K to get a £40K car.

This example is, obviously, oversimplified but the main point stands. There are numerous ways to drive a flash car for not too much money.

Majority of luxury cars are "purchased" this way - why buy a Mondeo when you can get a E-Class Merc for less? And look, Merc and BMW are also throwing in some complimentary upgrades and a free set of steak knives!

motorguy

Strider590 wrote: »

If you don't get it, then you never will......

You can only see the surface of why human beings make the decisions they make, you don't understand the social influences, the subconcious decision making that we all do.

Take 2 friends, one buys a particular car, the other has a choice between two, but 9 times in 10, will ultimately pick the same one as the friend.
There's no logical reason for it, he/she doesn't even realise why they made that decision, but they did.

Sorry - but this is dross. Of all my friends, i dont think any two drive the same car. In fact most people i know would psycologically avoid picking the same car as a friend has.

Having 25+ years experience in or around the motor trade, there are very many reasons why people buy what they buy. "because my friend has one" is a lot further down the list than you think.

Strider590 wrote: »

Scale that up and apply it to aspirations of social class, most people want what others have, but not just ANY other, they want what they perceive to be rich and successful people have. It's all subconscious, you don't know it's happening, most people go through life like this.

Yes, we live in an aspirational society, but i think its fairly naive to think that someone will buy a 318d BMW on PCP simply to fool themselves or friends that 'they've made it'.

Strider590 wrote: »

Stand back and ask yourself why you really want something, to every answer ask yourself "why?", do this 5 times and you'll be close to the real reason.

When i really want something its because it impresses me, not because it impresses other people. My two 'aspirational' cars at the minute are a Ford Puma 1.7 - because they handle great and are little rockets cross country OR (another) Mazda MX5. My last one cost me £700 and i had endless pleasure getting the car to where i wanted it. Either way i really dont expect to pay much over £700 - and i'll probably keep my flying £500 Fiat diesel as a workhorse.

By your reckoning i should be aspiring to own a new BMW 318d as this will infinitely improve my social standing, my happiness and my sexual prowess.

Strider590 wrote: »

I could paste a load of links to help ya'll learn about this stuff, but you've already proven your not ready to listen.

I think you've read a book on this or read up a bit on it on the internet, which is all very well and all very interesting, but you're applying one aspect of human behaviour and made it the only aspect of human behaviour that applies to cars. Everyones different. Everyone has different aspirations at different times in their lives, but you cant just simply say 'anyone who drives a Mercedes on finance is stupid and i am much smarter and much more 'aware' because i dont do this'.

smashingyour...

GolfBravo wrote: »

Just think about owning a car this way: a lot of people, including myself, own businesses (limited companies). This allows you to lease a nice car for 20-30% less.

How is this possible? Lets say you are a full time employee, with a regular 9-5 job. You get your monthly salary, but the money you get is just leftovers - the government have already helped themselves to 30% of your money (income tax, NI, etc). So to buy a £40K car you have to work really hard and earn £60K.

But then, you start your own limited company and, let's say, become a consultant (con + insult = consult ). You become a company director, and before you give the government any of your hard earned cash, you pay yourself first: company car, business expenses, directors salary (not too much, to minimise tax), company entertainment, sales incentives, etc. And from whatever is left over, you pay the government some taxes, and then also top up your bank account with a dividend. Suddenly the £40K car is just so much more affordable - your limited company (you) only has to earn £40K to get a £40K car.

This example is, obviously, oversimplified but the main point stands. There are numerous ways to drive a flash car for not too much money.

Majority of luxury cars are "purchased" this way - why buy a Mondeo when you can get a E-Class Merc for less? And look, Merc and BMW are also throwing in some complimentary upgrades and a free set of steak knives!

Nicely put but how do you get a Mercedes-Benz cheaper than a Ford?

Can you not buy Fords in the way you describe?