Parking Eye - Should I Ignore?

wilsonf1

HELP! Here is my situation: I parked in a free for 2 hours car park and over stayed by 27 minutes. It is Parking Eye Ltd. There is a photo my car at the start and end of this 2hr 27 window. I do not have any receipts for the retail park. Can I just ignore these?

How much can it cost drivers if it went to small claims and some how I lost? Hundreds??

I read that the claim they would make in small claims would be loss of income to their business. The loss the car park is surely 0 if the car park is free. Even if I offered to pay them 27 minutes of parking.... £0.

It was after 6pm which I guessed wouldn't matter (although I know this is my fault for not reading the signs)

Should I remain silent?

The_Slithy_Tove

Small claims is a lottery, and far more stress than anyone would want if there were a way to avoid it. While the chances of being taken to small claims is probably still quite small for ignoring, PE are issuing hundreds of claims right now.

Better and simpler to appeal (doesn't matter on what grounds, as it'll be rejected), then appeal to POPLA where, with the right points available on this forum, you will win, and it'll all go away.

Guys_Dad

The_Slithy_Tove wrote: »

Better and simpler to appeal (doesn't matter on what grounds, as it'll be rejected), then appeal to POPLA where, with the right points available on this forum, you will win, and it'll all go away.

There are some examples of this "soft appeal" to PPCs on this forum.

However, some, including this mob, are replying saying that the appeal didn't have any valid reasons.

So I would take a soft appeal from one of the many on threads on here, and say that you believe that their signs do not comply with the BPA specifications.

Always appeal in the 3rd person (the record keeper does not believe............... etc)

So have a look through virtually any thread on here to get the soft appeal (it will fail) but it is there to get the POPLA code so that a proper appeal can go to them.

bazster

I agree G.D. and am thinking it's time to move away from the sarcastic, aggressive "soft" appeals we have tended to offer. Something lame in the "appellant's" own words will more likely get the POPLA code without hassle.

Coupon-mad

wilsonf1 wrote: »

HELP! Here is my situation: I parked in a free for 2 hours car park and over stayed by 27 minutes. It is Parking Eye Ltd. There is a photo my car at the start and end of this 2hr 27 window. I do not have any receipts for the retail park. Can I just ignore these?

How much can it cost drivers if it went to small claims and some how I lost? Hundreds??

I read that the claim they would make in small claims would be loss of income to their business. The loss the car park is surely 0 if the car park is free. Even if I offered to pay them 27 minutes of parking.... £0.

It was after 6pm which I guessed wouldn't matter (although I know this is my fault for not reading the signs)

Should I remain silent?

Not hundreds no, not at all! Read this response I wrote to explain to someone who had got a (still rare) court claim:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62405907#Comment_62405907

...and you are more likely to win at POPLA anyway, VERY likely with our help (as long as this is in England/Wales). And when you do the fake PCN is cancelled.

So don't ignore it, send a challenge without naming who was driving nor implying it, and NOT talking about 'what happened' at all. Some short appeals to get a POPLA code are linked here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=80125&st=20&start=20

If you ignore it you are putting yourself deliberately in the exact position of those people who currently have small claims from PE so why on earth would you do that now we know how to win at POPLA? Let us know when you get your POPLA code and start reading examples of POPLA appeals which are also all over the parking forum on almost every thread.

wilsonf1

So am I trying to appeal or to challenge?

Is a short letter asking for what their legal position is enough?

Should I just say I am the RK but am not sure who was using my car on that date so cannot possibly pay the fine?

Do I request a POPLA code or will they reply with one if they think I am appealing?

The 14 day date is 18th July. Any more prods in the right direction are massively appreciated. It's all starting to make sense...


*** EDIT ***
I see this is a reason to appeal to POPLA:

The parking charge (ticket) exceeded the appropriate amount: e.g. that you are being asked to pay the wrong amount for the parking charge or that the charge has already been paid.

If the car park is free, and all the shops closed half an hour into my stay (with McDonalds still open for dinner - meaning it's was near empty) - then how is a £60 fine appropriate in this instance? There is no loss to the PPC?

Orrin

You can call it an appeal or a challenge and they should treat it the same.

Just tell them why you don't think you should pay the charge. It doesn't really matter what you say as they will almost certainly dismiss your appeal. The important thing is not to identify the driver.

You can request a POPLA code but they should provide you with one if they reject your appeal.

makemboy

wilsonf1 wrote: »

HELP! Here is my situation: I parked in a free for 2 hours car park and over stayed by 27 minutes. It is Parking Eye Ltd. There is a photo my car at the start and end of this 2hr 27 window. I do not have any receipts for the retail park. Can I just ignore these?

How much can it cost drivers if it went to small claims and some how I lost? Hundreds??

I read that the claim they would make in small claims would be loss of income to their business. The loss the car park is surely 0 if the car park is free. Even if I offered to pay them 27 minutes of parking.... £0.

It was after 6pm which I guessed wouldn't matter (although I know this is my fault for not reading the signs)

Should I remain silent?

Similar situation to me last year. It was my wife driving but Notice sent to me as registered driver. I ignored it and further three demands. I then heard no more.

However, check on changes in regulations dated from October 2012. I am not sure if this would change things.

makemboy

Coupon-mad

wilsonf1 wrote: »

So am I trying to appeal or to challenge?

Is a short letter asking for what their legal position is enough?

Should I just say I am the RK but am not sure who was using my car on that date so cannot possibly pay the fine?

Do I request a POPLA code or will they reply with one if they think I am appealing?

The 14 day date is 18th July. Any more prods in the right direction are massively appreciated. It's all starting to make sense...


*** EDIT ***
I see this is a reason to appeal to POPLA:

The parking charge (ticket) exceeded the appropriate amount: e.g. that you are being asked to pay the wrong amount for the parking charge or that the charge has already been paid.

If the car park is free, and all the shops closed half an hour into my stay (with McDonalds still open for dinner - meaning it's was near empty) - then how is a £60 fine appropriate in this instance? There is no loss to the PPC?

No need to study & take seriously the restrictively worded 4 headings about appealing to POPLA. They mean nothing as you can appeal on any points, look:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/secret-reasons-you-can-use-in-your.html

I see from the pm you sent me that you got a standard rejection template from PE saying their 'loss' covers stuff like business running costs. It's good (for you) that they said that because such costs are not a loss caused by the incident at all!

POPLA appeal examples linked below, read/amend/use as many paragraphs as you can in your own draft:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62180281#Comment_62180281

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62523345#Comment_62523345

Also read the 'POPLA Decisions' sticky thread at the top of the parking forum, in particular the most recent successes against PE and what point the motorist won on. Make sure you include those points yourself.

Show us your draft POPLA appeal on this thread, no need to be shy as PE will see it soon enough and we want to help you to win this appeal. Be aware that if you submit it online to POPLA the system will cut it off short! So if it allows links you should attach the full appeal as a PDF link with a short covering note in the online appeals box.

Or just send it by post with a POPLA appeal form in hard copy.

...but only after you've posted it here for fine tuning!

wilsonf1

Here goes:

Dear Sir/Madam,
RE: POPLA xxxxxxx
PCN: xxxx/xxxxxx
Vehicle Reg: xxxxxxx
Date of Issue: xxxxxx
Company in question: Parking Eye Ltd


On the xxx of June 2013, the registered keeper of car registration xxxxxx was issued a PCN by Parking Eye Ltd for parking in the xxxxxx Retail Park. There are a number of reasons why I would like to challenge this PCN:


1) No contract with the site that permits levying charges
The Parking Eye parking notice states that it has been served on behalf of the landowner (or vaguely states the land owners agent - without Parking Eye being able to specify who that is). However, I doubt that Parking Eye has the legal status and overriding right to pursue parking charge notices. I therefore require Parking Eye to supply and POPLA to review:

• A copy of the current signed site agreement or contract with the landowner/occupier of that site
• A copy of the wording of the current imposed permit scheme with proof that the landowner has agreed to/been informed about it.
• A current map of all the areas and bays of that car park where the permit scheme is and is not applicable, as agreed with the landowner/occupier.
• Contemporaneous photos of the actual signs on site taken from the view of the driver of a car where the car in question was parked.
Furthermore, I require that Parking Eye show POPLA proof that they have the right to charge and pursue motorists (including threats of debt recovery and court action).


2) Inappropriate parking charge
The demand for a payment of £85 as noted within the Parking Charge is a punitive amount that has no relationship to the loss that would have been suffered by the Landowner. The BPA code of practice states:

19.5 If the parking charge that the driver is being asked to pay
is for a breach of contract or act of trespass, this charge
must be based on the genuine pre-estimate of loss that
you suffer.

19.6 If your parking charge is based upon a contractually
agreed sum, that charge cannot be punitive or
unreasonable.


I require Parking Eye to provide a detailed breakdown of how the amount of the 'charge' was arrived at. The PCN states that the registered keeper outstayed by 27 minutes at 9:50pm. Based on the fact that most of the retail outlets close at 8pm and the car park would be at the very least over 90% empty I cannot possibly see how Parking Eye are at an actual loss from this. I am also aware from court rulings and previous POPLA adjudications that the cost of running the business may not be included in these pre-estimate losses and these are the only costs listed on the appeal rejection.


3) No breach/trespass
As stated there was no actual loss to Parking Eye, the landowner or the landowners agent, therefore at most the allegation can only be a civil trespass. This is denied - and indeed the Parking Eye ticket did not mention trespass nor breach, so there is no charge applicable. However, for the avoidance of doubt, if Parking Eye do now try to allege that this is the nature of this 'charge' then the driver would be potentially only be liable for damages owed to the owner/occupier who may have suffered a loss. Since no ‘damage’ occurred in the car park and also given the fact that the car park was nowhere near full in the short time the car was on site (not the time from above), there was in fact no loss at all and this charge is purely a profiteering penalty, out of all proportion.


I can honestly see no grounds for this 'charge' and believe POPLA must inform Parking Eye to cancel the PCN.


Yours faithfully.
?????????????

Coupon-mad

Be careful what you copy & paste, I spotted that these (struck out below) bullet points aren't even relevant - but you need to re-read your appeal to make sure there's nothing else not applicable to a free car park!

[STRIKE]
• A copy of the wording of the current imposed permit scheme with proof
that the landowner has agreed to/been informed about it.
• A current map of all the areas and bays of that car park where the permit scheme is and is not
applicable, as agreed with the landowner/occupier.
[/STRIKE]
And your next bullet point you used should be within a whole paragraph about bad signage not being brought home to drivers at the entrance in a prominent enough way to make it certain the terms and conditions would be fully read by a driver in a moving car, and understood. IMHO, even if a keeper has never been in a car park, a paragraph about signage being unclear, too high, not lit/reflective for evenings and/or too small font to read from a moving car should always be a feature of a POPLA appeal.

Here's one I wrote with a signage paragraph and other stuff you might have missed (post #2):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4695227

And I didn't see anything putting them to proof about their (BPA CoP required) maintenance and checks of their ANPR cameras at that site. As on the linked examples, it's another hoop to make them jump through. It forces the PPC to have to show documents they may miss out of their evidence pack.

You also may want to add some case law like those quoted in some of the examples you read. An stuff about the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts regs (again, as quoted in examples linked above).

How to win your POPLA appeal:

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/popla/

And just be careful if trying to appeal online to POPLA, as their website apparently doesn't work properly for anyone using Firefox, and also their word-count is too limited to fit a long appeal in, it WILL cut it off without warning. So if you have a hard copy POPLA form send it by post with the printed out full appeal firmly stapled (not paper clipped) to it, with all pages having a header or footer showing the POPLA 10 digit code and your name & car reg (so no page gets lost!).



HTH