No lintels above windows!

TREE

I have had my double glazing windows on order for the past month and the builder was coming to knock a wall through so the patio doors could also be fitted. They are coming tomorrow to fit the windows and patio doors but the builder couldn't make it to make the hole in the wall and only arrived today to start work!

He was taking the old wood above the all the windows and only just told me there is no lintels above any of the windows. It is old PVC windows that are being removed to have new PVC one fitted tomorrow! They are arriving at 7am and now the office is closed for me to tell them the problem!

The house was build 1930 so it is an old house and I know they used the wooden frames to hold up the bricks. The chap isn't very nice who is doing the fitting and I am dreading what he will say!

The builder said he would allow them to fit the windows as lintels need fitting first and not afterwards!

tim123456789

I don't know how it works structurally, but it is possible for window frames to be "supporting".

This was why the rules were changed to insist that all window replacements were FENSA "approved", because cowboy DG installers would take away a supporting wooden frame and replace it with a non supporting uPVC one.

Now, a "professional" FENSA installer has to check the support that the replacement window has to provide before quoting/making/installing the windows.

If they have not done this correctly, complain to FENSA (assuming that the installer is registered)

tim

teneighty

If it is a 1930's house I would say its a pretty good bet that it has got insitu concrete boot lintels with bonded brick face or something similar.

If you are replacing existing plastic windows what has been holding up the walls for the last 10 years?

Where has this myth come from about older houses not having lintels? It is very rare.

propertyman

its not a myth and very common to find the brick, especially in solid walsl with render outside and no cavity to be supported by the timber in the windows.

A reputable window installer would have checked to see....

Its not uncommon for PVCu windows to have been installed and support brick for a time however the narrower profile and degradation of the material leads to problems in the years to come.

In the bad old days and to an extent today the company has opened fitted and closed down before a problem appears.

leveller2911

tim123456789 wrote: »

I don't know how it works structurally, but it is possible for window frames
to be "supporting".





This was why the rules were changed to insist that all window replacements were FENSA "approved",





tim

Not true I'm afraid.Any compentant DIYer can install their own windows and use the local Councils "Building notice" which is very easy.You simply fill out a form which shows your intention to replace your own windows and when you commence work the Building Control officer comes out to check that the work will comply with regulations.

FENSA is a money making scheme which relies on the honesty of the members to comply with regulations. There are plenty of FENSA companies out there breaking their own rules.

In older properties you tended to get timber lintels on the internal skin and the external skin was a soldier coarse of bricks with a keystone in the centre.I would say 98% of the windows I have replaced over the years had lintels with the exception being Oast houses ( originallly a farm building for drying hops and not to live in)where you rarely find lintels as they would need to be curved so expensive

teneighty

In older properties you tended to get timber lintels on the internal skin and the external skin was a soldier coarse of bricks with a keystone in the centre.I would say 98% of the windows I have replaced over the years had lintels with the exception being Oast houses ( originallly a farm building for drying hops and not to live in)where you rarely find lintels as they would need to be curved so expensive

Exactly. I think the trouble is just because people cannot see a modern pressed steel lintel or there is stretcher bond brickwork apparently unsupported above the opening they assume there is no lintel but chances are there is something in there somewhere hidden away. Timber, concrete or some configuration of masonry arch, even a flat arch.

Try drilling a pilot hole on the inside above the window and see what you hit.

wmathias

teneighty wrote: »

Exactly. I think the trouble is just because people cannot see a modern pressed steel lintel or there is stretcher bond brickwork apparently unsupported above the opening they assume there is no lintel but chances are there is something in there somewhere hidden away. Timber, concrete or some configuration of masonry arch, even a flat arch.

Try drilling a pilot hole on the inside above the window and see what you hit.

Sorry to dredge up an old thread, but it's exactly on my topic!

I've a house built in approx 1915, with arched soldier bricks above the current wood frame french doors. I don't know if I have a cavity.

I've drilled a pilot hole inside above the wooden frame and got only red brick dust.

Does this make me one of the 2% without an internal lintel do you think?

martindow

wmathias wrote: »

I've a house built in approx 1915, with arched soldier bricks above the current wood frame french doors. I don't know if I have a cavity.

I've drilled a pilot hole inside above the wooden frame and got only red brick dust.

Does this make me one of the 2% without an internal lintel do you think?

Arches have structural strength so it could be that these are sufficient and no lintel is needed.

wmathias

martindow wrote: »

Arches have structural strength so it could be that these are sufficient and no lintel is needed.

Hi Mate.

I can see the outside soldier arch working for the outside bricks, but would that arch support the inner bricks (there's no arch shape inside, just plaster and then the square wood frame and french door)?

ACG

Is it compulsory for their to be lintels?
What date did it become compulsory to have lintels and/or a FENSA certificate?

I bought my house a year or so ago. The double glazing has been in a while, there is one window at the back and you can see some of the bricks have dropped and are pretty much resting on the window.

It passed a valuers report - the basic one, i cant see it getting any worse as i imagine the windows have been in for 10-15 years, but it would be handy to know as my intention is to put it on a BTL mortgage at some point and rent it out.

leveller2911

wmathias wrote: »

Hi Mate.

I can see the outside soldier arch working for the outside bricks, but would that arch support the inner bricks (there's no arch shape inside, just plaster and then the square wood frame and french door)?

If there is no arch on the inside skin of brickwork then there should be either a concrete lintel or more common on older properties a timber lintel. I would wager money on yours being a timber lintel due to the age of the house.. Timber lintels are fine as long as they aren't full of worm.