So how do we deter unwanted parking?

still_here

While I applaud efforts to defend motorists against dubious anti-parking procedures, there is another side to the coin. We are a non-commercial company that manages a small block of flats with parking facilities for the residents. Unfortunately it is an area where parking for the public is in short supply and we think it reasonable to discourage strangers from parking in the surrounding private land. Genuine visitors are welcome. We ask the flat being visited to provide a display disk in the visitor's vehicle. Commercial visitors are welcome. How do we deter the rest? I notice Tesco Express had a big sign on their wall saying, "By parking here you agree to pay us £50 if you park for longer than 30 minutes". That seemed reasonable to me.

Herzlos

I don't understand the 'non-commercial company that manages a small block of flats' part. Does that mean you're some sort of residents co-op organisation?

My first thought would be to make it permit only; permanent permits for residents and temporary (24-hour) permits for visitors.

I had a flat that worked like that fairly successfully, though the temporary permits were only for 6 hours and we were only allocated a few a year without needing to jump through hoops to get more.So making the temporary permits more resident friendly would help.

Jamie_Carter

I have to agree. Imagine if you owned a plot of land, and your business income was from charging people to park there. Unless you can afford expensive barriers and payment machines, then anyone can park there and cost you business. And it seems there is nothing you can do about it.

As for Tescos, I should think they use one of the many dodgy parking companies.

It's a shame that people put so much effort into finding ways to not pay for parking. The way I see it is that if you park, then you obey the car park rules, and you pay.

Jamie_Carter

Herzlos wrote: »

I don't understand the 'non-commercial company that manages a small block of flats' part. Does that mean you're some sort of residents co-op organisation?

My first thought would be to make it permit only; permanent permits for residents and temporary (24-hour) permits for visitors.

I had a flat that worked like that fairly successfully, though the temporary permits were only for 6 hours and we were only allocated a few a year without needing to jump through hoops to get more.So making the temporary permits more resident friendly would help.

But what do they do if someone parks there without a permit?

Stroma

Well like anything in life that is valued you have to look after it, and in parking protect your investment. Give you an example, if you have a house with all your valued worldly possessions in it, when you fit a new door, would you fit a lock on it as well? If you didn't I guess your insurance company wouldn't cough up once somebody has tried the handle found it open and took everything.

With parking there are number of choices,

1) you get parking company to scam people, which still doesn't fix the problem
2) you protect the property with barriers, bollards and chains
3) you put signs up asking people not to abuse the place
4) ask the council to adopt the car park, and to get CEOs to go there
5) you let the status quo go on

If you truly want to lesson the problems there needs to be investment, getting seemingly free parking management firms in will only effect the people living there, as the only way these companies can make money is giving residents unlawful penalties.

Forensic

still_here wrote: »

I notice Tesco Express had a big sign on their wall saying, "By parking here you agree to pay us £50 if you park for longer than 30 minutes". That seemed reasonable to me.

No it isn't reasonable, it is 100% harassment and totally illegal in no uncertain terms. When an operator can prove how staying parked for 40 minutes has cost the client £50 without reciting the unlawful terms and conditions, only then can we discuss reasonable.

I have similar circumstances. I own a one-bed apartment and the properties on our square each have one parking space per household. The parking spot is also a freehold entity. There are spaces for visitors which can be used as an overflow when there is more than one car in the household but it is first come first served on that.

Unfortunately there is no signage explaining this so very often one finds a commercial vehicle parked in a resident's spot. So far, everybody has been reasonable and no one has deemed it abuse; the drivers have been reasonable too in apologising but I've seen the resident is normally happy enough to let them stay now they've cleared the air. What is the solution? I suppose we can only erect signage stating that it is private parking, "please do not abuse this". It is down to the individual how he goes from there. If he is a headbanger who doesn't give a monkeys then you can indeed involve the police because you are dealing with anti-social behaviour, just as if a problem becomes persistent.

However, no argument will persuade any forum member that trying to penalise them is either legal or fair. We all oppose such measures.

Forensic

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

It's a shame that people put so much effort into finding ways to not pay for parking. The way I see it is that if you park, then you obey the car park rules, and you pay.

Correct - when there is a pay and display machine or alternative. That is paying to park for your duration.

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

As for Tescos, I should think they use one of the many dodgy parking companies.

The "dodgy parking companies" can rot as they do no good for anybody except themselves. Their entire estate is attributed to that very "dodgy" harassment campaign and targeting vulnerable individuals unable to distinguish between real and fake authorities.

People escaping paying to park is one thing, but allowing private enterprises to illegally penalise them is about as reasonable as bringing back clamping and legalising loan sharks - even letting them have firearms.

In short, avoiding parking charges - not the problem of MSE.

Guys_Dad

There can be a problem with people parking in limited spaces for hours on end denying businesses customers. The same applies where motorists park in residents car parking spaces.

Unfortunately, the "parking industry" has leeched on and they see sloving the parking problem as secondary to milking the cash cow that results from their over-charging.

Far worse, they stretch the limits of their new-found cash cow to charge staff who forget their passes, disabled drivers who do similar, employ staff who cheat in order to earn bonuses, have ANPR equipment that conveniently ignores your first -out, second-in visits on the same day and have ridiculous charges for minor contraventions.

I got interested when I got clamped last year visiting a friend. I got out my car which was parked in a visitor bay, went up to the second floor, rang bell, waited for her to get her coat and bag and visitor's parking pass, came down stairs to find the Clampits had struck. They were still there. She got the visitor's pass out, but no way were they budging, so I parted with £80 as they were about to call the tow truck.

That's my story. So, if I can help anyone and save them giving their cash over to these people, I get some sort of revenge.

Coupon-mad

still_here wrote: »

While I applaud efforts to defend motorists against dubious anti-parking procedures, there is another side to the coin. We are a non-commercial company that manages a small block of flats with parking facilities for the residents. Unfortunately it is an area where parking for the public is in short supply and we think it reasonable to discourage strangers from parking in the surrounding private land. Genuine visitors are welcome. We ask the flat being visited to provide a display disk in the visitor's vehicle. Commercial visitors are welcome. How do we deter the rest? I notice Tesco Express had a big sign on their wall saying, "By parking here you agree to pay us £50 if you park for longer than 30 minutes". That seemed reasonable to me.

Put a simple chain & posts across the entrance(s) as a visible deterrent (one that can be moved with or without a key so residents can get in and out). That's enough to deter most drive-by would-be parkers round here.

It's the same sort of question as if you'd said 'my house doesn't have a front door, how can I deter burglars?' The answer would be put a door (barrier) in!

still_here

Yes, we are the property management company of the block of flats. But we are unpaid and made up of flat owners. The anti-parking activities have in the past been exploited so ruthlessly that there is an understandable dislike, even hatred of them. But we need to be balanced. Residents are entitled to feel that they have a priority over strangers when wanting to park on private land around their homes. I am glad that ruthless clampers have been curbed or stopped, but there needs to be something instead.

To the contributor who criticised Tesco Express, I still think that their procedure seems reasonable. I parked there for 10 minutes to pick up something heavy. That is how it should be and much better than someone parking there all day, surely?

Coupon-mad

An alternative to a chain at the entrance which is very cheap, is instead to put a couple of small lockable parking posts there - you can find them selling online for £40.

They could either 'protect' the entrance or be in front of certain bays, and residents could have keys.

But IMHO the chain at the entrance is the simplest thing (a visible deterrent to most drive-by would-be parkers who'd have to pull over, get out, move the chain...etc. in order to get in which is drawing attention to themselves in a way most people do not want if they know they shouldn't be there). And maybe get some reflective tape or cord entwined or stuck around the chain and the posts - so it's also visible in the dark and stops anyone driving into it or tripping. And a sign if you want (but no threats, a polite sign!).

I think the pariahs of PPC World have taken over so many car parks in the UK that it seems many people have forgotten that you simply do not have to put up signs and demand money with menaces to protect property. Gates, doors and chains are the normal answer (avoiding the rip-off PPC business 'protection racket' model).