I am really stuck - Narcissistic mother

top_drawer_2

hello

I'm looking for somewhere to rant as I can't really see how I can do anything to change the way things are at the moment. This article
Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers describes my mother to a T - I've known about it for awhile although I have never told anyone because I feel it reflects badly on me. But I am currently living back home for awhile, the effects it is having on my disabled sister - who has downs syndrome but is relatively healthy, are much more apparent.

She seems to have developed a number of issues - depression / anxiety related and was initially put on 10mg Citalopram and more recently Sertaline 40mg.

I can see that she has low self-esteem / is easily manipulated / keen to have my mothers attention (usually given to serve my mothers own purposes) / spends most of her time in her room, even eating her room "out of the way" according to my mother, apparently when she stops down she wants to dominate the TV (which is my mothers forte) while eating / lives for her Support Worker who takes her out for her allocated x number of hrs a week but doesn't really have any friends as such (difficult to maintain any when my Mother won't help her keep contact) and her social skills are a little immature.

Its caused quite a few arguments as I've disagreed with a lot of the things she says to her / ways she speaks to her (sneering / puts downs usually) that encourage her to isolate herself even further. For example "why can't you be like someone else" or commenting on things to other people "Look at the state of her!" causing her to be angry and retaliate in some way or other, which T (sister) gets blamed for. My mother rarely gives anyone her attention, she is normally on the computer playing candy crush saga etc so you are speaking to the back of her head.

My parents have always followed their interests above and beyond anything we as children wanted to do. When I was a teenager it was going out to the pub (4-6 nights a week) and I was the nominated "au-pair" so was never allowed to go out in the evenings and every holiday we had we were dragged around bars then they argued or found a issue with one of us kids and turned it nuclear

More recently its become camping and they want to go earlier and earlier in the week (T often missing out on college etc for this). T hates camping as although there is much to do in the area, my parents prefer to "chill" and stop on the campsite (just a field really) and this causes friction as she is bored (only so much laptop / dvd's one can watch). They turn this into a problem of her being impossible to please. In winter they sit in the caravan and watch tv / read etc.

I am working on things with her but I can't see how to make any real effects. We have been to two different theatre shows recently (expanding her interests) and spent time with her (she is worthwhile!), encouraged her to take up a hobby such as colouring rather than crying / worrying about things in the evenings (encouraging her to manage her own feelings), encouraged her to do things for herself such as changing her bedding / washing up the evenings dishes etc.

I won't always be around though and I'm sure I'm not doing enough to make any difference. It really pains me to see how unhappy she is, I suffered much of the same when I was a teenager and was seen by CAMH's who confirmed to me that there was something innately "wrong" in me.

I just can't see an end for my sister as she can't make all the normal milestones.

Thanks for listening

tanith

How old is your sister? and would she be capable of living independantly? Lots of over 18's with Downs do this nowadays.. take a look here..

http://www.downs-syndrome.org.uk/information/for-familiescarers/adults-18.html

What a nice brother/sister you are to care about her so much.. bravo!

top_drawer_2

I would very much like this type of thing for her and I believe she is very capable of it given support, additional teaching in certain things. However, parental support for it has to be present for it to happen.

My Mother has very explicitly sneered "T couldn't cope living on her own" My Mother is claiming ESA for herself (although has never worked) and T also gets quite a lot of money which goes to my Mothers account which IMO makes it unlikely she will ever support such a thing.

meritaten

top_drawer wrote: »

hello

I'm looking for somewhere to rant as I can't really see how I can do anything to change the way things are at the moment. This article
Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers describes my mother to a T - I've known about it for awhile although I have never told anyone because I feel it reflects badly on me. But I am currently living back home for awhile, the effects it is having on my disabled sister - who has downs syndrome but is relatively healthy, are much more apparent.

She seems to have developed a number of issues - depression / anxiety related and was initially put on 10mg Citalopram and more recently Sertaline 40mg.

I can see that she has low self-esteem / is easily manipulated / keen to have my mothers attention (usually given to serve my mothers own purposes) / spends most of her time in her room, even eating her room "out of the way" according to my mother, apparently when she stops down she wants to dominate the TV (which is my mothers forte) while eating / lives for her Support Worker who takes her out for her allocated x number of hrs a week but doesn't really have any friends as such (difficult to maintain any when my Mother won't help her keep contact) and her social skills are a little immature.

Its caused quite a few arguments as I've disagreed with a lot of the things she says to her / ways she speaks to her (sneering / puts downs usually) that encourage her to isolate herself even further. For example "why can't you be like someone else" or commenting on things to other people "Look at the state of her!" causing her to be angry and retaliate in some way or other, which T (sister) gets blamed for. My mother rarely gives anyone her attention, she is normally on the computer playing candy crush saga etc so you are speaking to the back of her head.

My parents have always followed their interests above and beyond anything we as children wanted to do. When I was a teenager it was going out to the pub (4-6 nights a week) and I was the nominated "au-pair" so was never allowed to go out in the evenings and every holiday we had we were dragged around bars then they argued or found a issue with one of us kids and turned it nuclear

More recently its become camping and they want to go earlier and earlier in the week (T often missing out on college etc for this). T hates camping as although there is much to do in the area, my parents prefer to "chill" and stop on the campsite (just a field really) and this causes friction as she is bored (only so much laptop / dvd's one can watch). They turn this into a problem of her being impossible to please. In winter they sit in the caravan and watch tv / read etc.

I am working on things with her but I can't see how to make any real effects. We have been to two different theatre shows recently (expanding her interests) and spent time with her (she is worthwhile!), encouraged her to take up a hobby such as colouring rather than crying / worrying about things in the evenings (encouraging her to manage her own feelings), encouraged her to do things for herself such as changing her bedding / washing up the evenings dishes etc.

I won't always be around though and I'm sure I'm not doing enough to make any difference. It really pains me to see how unhappy she is, I suffered much of the same when I was a teenager and was seen by CAMH's who confirmed to me that there was something innately "wrong" in me.

I just can't see an end for my sister as she can't make all the normal milestones.

Thanks for listening

sweety - Cahms had it wrong - there is nothing 'innately' wrong with YOU. you are a lovely person - this post is about your sister and your love for her, and concern for her, shines through.
your prob is your mother and her relationship with your sister - your relationship too although you pushed that to one side.

I agree that your mother is probably harming your sister - does she (your sister) have a mental health team? or is her GP sympathetic? because something does need to be done. and it seems its down to you.

The first thing I would say is to look around for a Down's Syndrome support group in the area - support groups can be very helpful. They usually know where to go for advice and help. you know you will have a battle on with your mother - you need to understand how to deal with narcissists - manipulation works both ways!
you may need to be very manipulative and underhanded - can you do that? because narcissists once understood CAN be manipulated by pandering to their ego.

julie03

You sound like a lovely caring supporting sister, you should contact the organisation in the link above and give them some idea of your sisters life and see what advice they would offer.

Good luck with it all xx

top_drawer_2

Me and my mother do very little else but argue / bicker about one thing or another. Its like living in a house of strangers really as we only clash if we speak anything more than facts.

The GP signs my Mothers sick notes and is apparently "lovely" according to my Mother. She has seen T but since she doesn't know she is being manipulated and my Mother is pretty clever at portraying a story I doubt I will be able to vary that. When I had CAMH's appointments I can see that I appeared sullen, sulky, uncommunicative and bratty in many ways which played beautifully into confirming that I was the problem.

I am not very good at manipulation of anything. She is a lot quicker than I am, sometimes its only well after something has occurred that I can see the why she has shown some nice / kind / generous behaviour.

The nearest DS group is some distance from us and seems to be parents supporting parents rather than professionals.

meritaten

Parents supporting Parents are brilliant at finding the right person for the right situation. They often have a very good professional supporting them.
my DD has found the right people for her Aspergers children only AFTER she joined an Asperger/Autism group. don't dismiss them - they could be a real lifeline.

Savvy_Sue

top_drawer wrote: »

I would very much like this type of thing for her and I believe she is very capable of it given support, additional teaching in certain things. However, parental support for it has to be present for it to happen.

I am not so sure about that: if your sister had an advocate who was speaking for her then it might be possible. Look at the Downs Syndrome Association website and maybe get in touch with them for advice.

grey_lady

Look up Susan Forward's 'Toxic Parents'
http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/
John Bradshaw's 'healing the inner child'

Remember - we all want to look up to our parents, to put them on a pedestal and its very hard to realise that they arent the person we wish they were.

marisco_2

Firstly I would like to say that you come across as a really kind and considerate person who has her sisters best interests at heart. Good on your for being so loving and supportive toward her. I am sure your care and thoughtfulness brings her great comfort and helps to enrich her life. It appears that your mothers relationship with your sister is extremely complicated. Such a shame that your mum behaves in this way and doesn't make your sisters welfare and wellbeing a priority in her life.

I get the impression that the main reason your mum objects to your sister being enabled to live independently, is because the money she receives for her would be re-directed straight to your sister. As uncomfortable as it may be for you to have this conversation with your mum I would be addressing this with her if I was you. It is selfish of her to stop your sister from living a full and happy life simply for her own gain. I would also be pointing out that the way she talks to and undermines your sister is totally inappropriate too. She may not like it one bit but why should she get away with being a bully toward someone who cannot stand up for herself. As a narcissist it will most likely go straight over her head and be dismissed but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be said.

top_drawer_2

Thanks everyone for responding. Does anyone have a similar situation? There was a massive thread awhile ago with different people sharing there experiences of their narcissistic mothers. I'm going to join a american forum and see if there is any help available there too.

Savvy Sue - I've telephoned the Down Syndrome association and got an email address for someone who can advise me. I would prefer to email to let them mull over what I am saying and hopefully they can offer something helpful. Its very difficult as I have lived away for a long time and as I don't drive (+ poor communication / unwillingness on my Mother's part) its very difficult to maintain contact. I am hoping to set up something via Skype with my sister so that she can at least speak to me. She seems to have absolutely no idea about any of this, when I have suggested something which didn't seem obvious to her, I've been blamed when my Mother has said no to that too. My Mother is very good at keeping her sweet and she just can't put her finger on these feelings of anger that she gets - for instance its always impossible (according to my Mother) to go on this or that outing / involved in an activity.

I think its unlikely at the moment that she could consider moving out to her own place - its something that she would need to consistently work towards as she is a "enabled helpless person" and my Mother would easily fend off any advances by an Advocate. She already tells all and sundry "I still have to help her wipe her bottom, y'know " plus other overshares / put downs - non quite true, but true enough that T would be decided to be unsuitable at the moment.

Grey Lady - Its true, I always hoped that somehow she would become the parent I wanted, that it something about me or her that could be fixed and then I could have the loving supportive parent I always wanted.

Thanks Marisco believe me it isn't interpreted in that way anywhere else in this family. They all seem to be "in" on it - her Dad is out of the picture (useless waste of space he was), my and her Step-Father is happy with the situation and can't see that their reactions to her are inappropriate / aggressive and my Sister (and my nephews) have become bathed in the light of "Golden Child" and nothing I can do is right. My Mum helps her out paying towards a horse, which has always wanted since she was 8-9 years old and with ad-hoc child care when needed. My relationship with my sister has deteriorated drastically with my sister over something which happened last year which I refused to drop (and she eventually had to compensate my loss). When I think of her, what immediately comes to mind is that of her when she was about 12 and screaming "I need ... " always a new dress, trainers etc which she always got (despite us having little money).

Anyway this is my stuff... I have most certainly said the things I believe (in a calm manner) and invariably she pulls the "how could you believe this of me" line along with how stressed she is with things, how much hassle I cause her and says that T is never home (no as her home is her room, really), meaning that she is often out with her Support Worker. She just can't see that a person needs more than a few trips out bowling / swimming / to the park each week - its an empty life imo.

She does see a Doctor and people at Social Services but my Mother is very cagey about details. I've thought about contacting them to offer some further insight into the situation and letting them work at things without telling my Mother what they know but I don't know how to go about it... Plus I feel like a lowdown creep, going behind her back when I'm living in their house!

*Sigh* thank god they aren't here.