HB Survey received - time to pull out?

highguyuk

HB report received this week. Expected the usual 3 criteria for electrics, heating etc and having read reports about us FTBs being overly worried I was calm about seeing quite a few bits on there!

However, the list that has come back is quite significant. I've filtered out those I don't consider problematic or those like electrics, heating etc.

Chimney (2)There is a shared central brick chimney stack and a separate stack on the left handside. The chimneys are in reasonable condition but are inevitably showing somesigns of age. There are weathered cement joints and I suspect loose flashings. Irecommend a general overhaul.

Roof (2)The roof is covered with tiles with no underlining. Internally there is considerabledaylight and the cement torching in between the tiling battens is weathered. Thereis a hidden central valley gutter between the neighbouring Property. These areasare often prone to leakage and require regular maintenance. I stronglyrecommend you have the roof covering stripped off and re-laid to incorporate awaterproof membrane and repair/replace the valley gutter if appropriate at this time.

Main Walls (2)There is a horizontal damp proof course. A damp proof course is a waterproof layerbuilt into, or formed within, the main walls to prevent ground moisture from rising.Random tests were carried out on accessible walls internally with the aid of anelectronic moisture meter. This did detect the presence of moisture in the walls(and there is some soft plaster in places). This suggests that the damp proofcourse has failed. I recommend you obtain quotations for repair from a member ofthe Property Care Association.High external ground levels should be lowered to at least 150mm (or about 2bricks) below the level of the damp proof course. This would certainly help toreduce the effects of any dampness internally

Other Joinery (2)Joinery at roof edge level is painted black. I suspect that the are areas of decay,especially where the paintwork is weathered. You should budget for a thoroughoverhaul/replacement. This is potentially expensive as safety access equipment(such as scaffolding or hydraulic platforms) would be required.

Ceilings (3)Ceilings are plastered and are concealed by decorative finishes, some of which aretextured.It is possible, depending upon their age, that the textured ceilings may containtraces of asbestos. Whilst there is not known to be a risk if it is left disturbed, anywork to the material such as drilling, sanding or removal could pose a hazard tohealth. If you intend undertaking such work, I recommend you seek further advicefrom an asbestos specialist as its removal could be potentially expensive.A number of the ceilings are cracked. Repair to lath and plaster ceilings is oftendifficult to undertake and results in the whole ceiling having to be replaced. Itwould be wise to budget for replastering works.


Firstly, any feedback on the above list of defects?

Secondly, I'm struggling to comprehend the work involved in dealing with the damp situation. How am I best to identify the problem to understand the costs involved?

Thirdly, my main concern is throwing good money after bad at the moment. We do really like the house and we knew it needed some work. But not these issues.

Advice please?!

martinsurrey

highguyuk wrote: »

Chimney (2) suspect.

Roof (2) if appropriate

Main Walls (2)There is a horizontal damp proof course. A damp proof course is a waterproof layerbuilt into, or formed within, the main walls to prevent ground moisture from rising.Random tests were carried out on accessible walls internally with the aid of anelectronic moisture meter. This did detect the presence of moisture in the walls(and there is some soft plaster in places). This suggests that the damp proofcourse has failed. I recommend you obtain quotations for repair from a member ofthe Property Care Association.High external ground levels should be lowered to at least 150mm (or about 2bricks) below the level of the damp proof course. This would certainly help toreduce the effects of any dampness internally

Other Joinery (2)I suspect

Ceilings (3)may contain, could


Firstly, any feedback on the above list of defects?

this is full of ifs buts and maybe's, the only thing ont here that jumps out is the rood lining.

nothing out of the ordinary for an older property there.

the plaster has lasted 100+ years, its not going to fall down tomorrow!

teneighty

the plaster has lasted 100+ years, its not going to fall down tomorrow!

I love this quote. Someone who clearly has never seen the aftermath of a lathe and plaster ceiling collapse. Yes it can just fall down tomorrow without warning and whilst it probably wouldn't cause too much personal injury unless you were very unlucky, it is very very messy. Or were you being ironic?

Otherwise the surveyor/valuer has clearly outlined all the potential works that require further investigation. Get quotes for recovering the roof and renew degraded joinery (fascias etc.); inspect central valley gutter; repointing and repairs to chimney; replace old lathe and plaster ceilings (test artex for asbestos beforehand); get PCA company to look at damp but it looks like it is just external ground level is too high.

If in doubt ask the surveyor/valuer. They have seen the property and better placed to answer your queries.

bosseyed

Interesting reading! I think the key thing to remember is that condition surveys always err on the gloomy side as optimism leaves them open to potential liability, so they'll always give you worst case when perhaps the reality is not quite so bad.

My thoughts anyway:

Chimney (2)There is a shared central brick chimney stack and a separate stack on the left handside. The chimneys are in reasonable condition but are inevitably showing some signs of age. There are weathered cement joints and I suspect loose flashings. Irecommend a general overhaul.

This is fairly standard stuff I'd say, most chimneys are weathered with loose flashings etc, a consequence of x amount of years taking the brunt of the weather. Also chances are this has been surveyed from ground level with binoculars so perhaps isn't 100% accurate. The potential with loose flashings and cement haunchings etc at stack level is that there is some localised penetrating damp into the roof void on the chimney flue. However, this is likely not to be catastrophic, so perhaps not urgent to fix and not likely to be prohibitively expensive as and when you do get it sorted. I had the same details on my survey when I bought my house and whilst there is a little damp around the chimney flue in my attic, its not a big issue and as such has not got any worse over the last 5 years whilst I've kept an eye on it. It'll get fixed at some stage, but not yet!

Roof (2)The roof is covered with tiles with no underlining. Internally there is considerabledaylight and the cement torching in between the tiling battens is weathered. Thereis a hidden central valley gutter between the neighbouring Property. These areasare often prone to leakage and require regular maintenance. I stronglyrecommend you have the roof covering stripped off and re-laid to incorporate awaterproof membrane and repair/replace the valley gutter if appropriate at this time.

Thats an interesting one - I've not seen a roof with no sheeting under the tiles, so I would suggest this needs doing. The sheeting is a big component in the roof against damp/water ingress, so if its missing and you have a loose/cracked tile then there might be problems with water coming in and causing further issues. Also won't help with thermal efficiency. There's no mention of the state of repair of the roof timbers - under the assumption that the rafters/purlins etc are sound then its a case of taking the tiling off, laying the sheeting and new battens and then refixing the tiling. A biggish job and potentially pricey depending on the size of your roof.

Your surveyor is also right in that valley gutters can be a total nightmare as if the detailing is not 100% then they can be a real source of damp ingress. However, this isn't an explicit statement on the condition of the valley gutter, he merely highlights it as a potential problem, so it may be fine. You'd need to get up there and have a proper look inside and out to check for damp.

Main Walls (2)There is a horizontal damp proof course. A damp proof course is a waterproof layerbuilt into, or formed within, the main walls to prevent ground moisture from rising.Random tests were carried out on accessible walls internally with the aid of anelectronic moisture meter. This did detect the presence of moisture in the walls(and there is some soft plaster in places). This suggests that the damp proofcourse has failed. I recommend you obtain quotations for repair from a member ofthe Property Care Association.High external ground levels should be lowered to at least 150mm (or about 2bricks) below the level of the damp proof course. This would certainly help toreduce the effects of any dampness internally

The wording here confuses me a slightly - he suggests that high external ground levels should be lowered; does this mean that the ground levels externally are higher than the DPC? ie, is there bare earth etc pressing right up against the wall of the house? If so then there may be nothing wrong with the DPC - it could be 100% ok but theres a path for damp directly over the top of it so it does nothing, hence damp plaster in the house. If this is the case, its possible that simply lowering ground levels to 150mm below DPC allowing the DPC to do its job will let the damp problem resolve itself over time.

Is there any air bricks in the elevations for sub floor ventilation?

Ceilings (3)Ceilings are plastered and are concealed by decorative finishes, some of which aretextured.It is possible, depending upon their age, that the textured ceilings may containtraces of asbestos. Whilst there is not known to be a risk if it is left disturbed, anywork to the material such as drilling, sanding or removal could pose a hazard tohealth. If you intend undertaking such work, I recommend you seek further advicefrom an asbestos specialist as its removal could be potentially expensive.A number of the ceilings are cracked. Repair to lath and plaster ceilings is oftendifficult to undertake and results in the whole ceiling having to be replaced. Itwould be wise to budget for replastering works.

If you wanted the ceilings replaced and you wanted to be 100% proper then yes, get an asbestos surveyor in to take samples and let you know for sure and then go from there. If you're not planning to touch the ceilings then don't worry about it. Just don't drill holes and breath the dust.

Cracking in lath and plaster ceilings is common - they're been there a while, they move like every other material so its not a big deal necesarily. As for fixing cracks, it depends on the finish you want and the extent of the cracking. If its like a crazy pavement up there then perhaps replacement is wise to stop ultimte collapse. If its just a few cracks here and there, it might just be simple settlement/differential movement. My lath and plaster ceilings were the latter, just the odd crack here and there which I aesthetically 'fixed' by simply running a line of filler in the cracks and then painting over. Yes you can just about see where the cracks were, but that doesn't bother me. Its characterful.....If you want glorious flat white ceilings then perhaps plasterboard replacement is on the cards, when the asbestos issue rears its head again.

One note on cracking though - the surveyor has made no note of any particular cracking patterns associated with deeper movement of the structure, so we can assume there isn't any. But worth looking for yourself, in building pathology, cracking tells a story about the building and its movement over time. In my house for example, cracks in my lath and plaster ceilings are in very specific places which are a result of the central structural spine wall settling slightly putting stress on the upper floor ceilings at obvious stress points. Not a big issue at the moment, but one that needs to be monitored over time.


Generally, lots of this isn't necessarily an urgent problem. The things that I would investigate further are the roof sheeting and the DPC. The roof/timber/chiney works can all be done at the same time thus hitting a few of the points in one go, so I would definitely get quotes in for this. DPC needs further investigation to actually understand - ask the surveyor for some more details for clarity.

Ultimately depends how much money you have in the budget for remedial works when you move in and how much you like the house. Either way, good luck.

martinsurrey

teneighty wrote: »

I love this quote. Someone who clearly has never seen the aftermath of a lathe and plaster ceiling collapse. Yes it can just fall down tomorrow without warning and whilst it probably wouldn't cause too much personal injury unless you were very unlucky, it is very very messy. Or were you being ironic?

You’re right I have not seen one collapse on its own randomly, I have seen people fall through one, and I have seen them fall after water damage, but never just random collapse (and certainly not under any conditions that a boarded ceiling would have fared any better).

A lathe and plaster ceiling is designed to crack and flex, it’s why it’s on lots of separate bits of wood and has animal hair in the mix, to keep it together despite cracks.

My lathe and plaster ceilings are cracked to here and back, the one I took down was real mess, and took a lot more effort to get down than a boarded ceiling, I ended up just over boarding the others that couldn’t be made to lookdecent.

highguyuk

It's the damp and the roof concerning me at the moment, as they are both big and both relative unknowns.

I'm estimating around 3-4k for a brand spanking new roof (?), but don't really know where to start with the damp side of things. Presumably I'll need to pay for a damp specialist to come in?

Yorkie1

How old is the house?

My 1930s semi had its original roof until a couple of years ago. It had no concrete underneath or lining; that's how it was built.

highguyuk

Yorkie1 wrote: »

How old is the house?

My 1930s semi had its original roof until a couple of years ago. It had no concrete underneath or lining; that's how it was built.

1927

Just need to balance everything out over the weekend I think...