Clear air turbulance - extraordinary?

callum9999

Hi, do any of you have any views as to whether clear air turbulance is really an extraordinary event?

My flight was cancelled due to the incoming plane experiencing that causing it to fly too fast meaning it needs an inspection. Despite the hub (Amsterdam - KLM) only being a 50 minute flight away, the only engineer who they could get to do it had to drive to Kent from Norwich, so we were then rerouted via Heathrow arriving 8 hours late. Do I have much of a case?

(I guess this should really be in the KLM thread but I was more interested in general opinions on the turbulance aspect)

Vauban

callum9999 wrote: »

Hi, do any of you have any views as to whether clear air turbulance is really an extraordinary event?

My flight was cancelled due to the incoming plane experiencing that causing it to fly too fast meaning it needs an inspection. Despite the hub (Amsterdam - KLM) only being a 50 minute flight away, the only engineer who they could get to do it had to drive to Kent from Norwich, so we were then rerouted via Heathrow arriving 8 hours late. Do I have much of a case?

(I guess this should really be in the KLM thread but I was more interested in general opinions on the turbulance aspect)

Is the experience of clear air turbulence inherent in the normal exercise of an airlines activity? I think almost certainly so. In which case, Waslentin says it cannot be an extraordinary circumstance.

callum9999

Vauban wrote: »

Is the experience of clear air turbulence inherent in the normal exercise of an airlines activity? I think almost certainly so. In which case, Waslentin says it cannot be an extraordinary circumstance.

Thanks for the quick reply. While I fully agree with you about planes experiencing it normally, this is the first I've heard of it making a plane go "too fast". So I wasn't quite sure whether they could legitimately say that the outcome of this specific incident was extraordinary.

friendofbillw2

Interesting one this.

Delays caused by weather have been ruled to be 'outside the airline's control', therefore not eligible for compensation. Clear air turbulence is certainly a meteorological phenomenon.

However, what you really have here are technical issues, with the plane scheduled to operate your flight needing a non-routine check after a buffeting on the incoming flight.

The airline will almost certainly claim extraordinary circumstances because of weather, but for that to stand up the weather has to have affected YOUR FLIGHT - for instance your destination airport becoming fogbound during your flight, requiring a flight diversion and road transfer, and a late arrival at your destination airport.

Your delay was caused by technical issues, which are not extraordinary, the airline should have had a contingency in place.

Judge FOBW bangs his gavel and finds for the Claimant!

Alan_Bowen

You were obviously booked from Manston which like Norwich uses rather old and rare aircraft (Fokker 70) that they use for some of their smaller airports, and with the losses they are suffering at Manston, they certainly wouldn't fly in another empty plane, if they had a spare, for the few of you waiting. What I cannot understand is why you were delayed eight hours, allowing even for three hours to Heathrow, it surely shouldn't have taken another five to get to Amsterdam.

CAT is not extraordinary, most airlines warn you to keep your seat belt fastened in case of unexpected CAT but I very much doubt that KLM will roll over and pay out, they are losing money and will almost certainly terminate the route you were on at the end of October unless the airport agrees to continue to subsidise the losses. Best of luck with the claim

callum9999

friendofbillw2 wrote: »

Interesting one this.

Delays caused by weather have been ruled to be 'outside the airline's control', therefore not eligible for compensation. Clear air turbulence is certainly a meteorological phenomenon.

However, what you really have here are technical issues, with the plane scheduled to operate your flight needing a non-routine check after a buffeting on the incoming flight.

The airline will almost certainly claim extraordinary circumstances because of weather, but for that to stand up the weather has to have affected YOUR FLIGHT - for instance your destination airport becoming fogbound during your flight, requiring a flight diversion and road transfer, and a late arrival at your destination airport.

Your delay was caused by technical issues, which are not extraordinary, the airline should have had a contingency in place.

Judge FOBW bangs his gavel and finds for the Claimant!

Thanks, I was sure I heard that before so I'm glad you confirmed it. They have already claimed extraordinary circumstances and just given me 3000 flying blue miles instead (which are virtually useless to me as I generally don't fly SkyTeam).

I've already sent them a response using those 2 arguments and mentioning that if they do not reverse their decision I will start legal action so I guess I'll have to wait and see what they say.

Alan_Bowen wrote: »

You were obviously booked from Manston which like Norwich uses rather old and rare aircraft (Fokker 70) that they use for some of their smaller airports, and with the losses they are suffering at Manston, they certainly wouldn't fly in another empty plane, if they had a spare, for the few of you waiting. What I cannot understand is why you were delayed eight hours, allowing even for three hours to Heathrow, it surely shouldn't have taken another five to get to Amsterdam.

CAT is not extraordinary, most airlines warn you to keep your seat belt fastened in case of unexpected CAT but I very much doubt that KLM will roll over and pay out, they are losing money and will almost certainly terminate the route you were on at the end of October unless the airport agrees to continue to subsidise the losses. Bets of luck with the claim

There were actually quite a few people waiting for the cancelled flight. I took the return flight today and the flight was virtually full (though I'd guess it's down to the weekend getaway crowd and it isn't necessarily doing well for the rest of the week - a shame, but I'm not surprised).

The 8 hour delay was caused by something like a) waiting around 3 hours for a coach (there was initially a long delay while they decided whether an engineer should be called in or whether the pilot could just inspect it), b) the journey to Heathrow, c) a 1-2 hour wait at Heathrow for the next KLM flight and d) a 30 minute delay on the Heathrow flight (and slightly longer flying time).