APCOA PCCN - Pay rest of ticket price or ignore?

kjharve

Hi,

I've read the various posts about whether to ignore the APCOA PCCN letters or pay the charge, so I won't go on about that specifically.

Just wondering how to handle my particular situation though. I regularly park at Downham Market train station and pay for my parking ticket using the mobile payment service. However, I was running a bit late this time and didn't have chance to phone through on the platform. Once on the train I couldn't get a good enough signal to complete the call. I continued with my day but completely forgot to phone through when I got to London.

I only remembered I hadn't paid when I got on the train home. I immediately phoned and paid what was a reduced charge at that point (much later in the day).

When I returned to my car, I had a PCCN. I'm still within the 14 days but don't fancy paying for a fake charge. When I get the notice to keeper letter, should I offer to pay the difference between what I did pay and what I should've paid or is the recommended approach simply to ignore completely?

Thanks,

kjharve

Coupon-mad

kjharve wrote: »

Hi,

I've read the various posts about whether to ignore the APCOA PCCN letters or pay the charge, so I won't go on about that specifically.

Just wondering how to handle my particular situation though. I regularly park at Downham Market train station and pay for my parking ticket using the mobile payment service. However, I was running a bit late this time and didn't have chance to phone through on the platform. Once on the train I couldn't get a good enough signal to complete the call. I continued with my day but completely forgot to phone through when I got to London.

I only remembered I hadn't paid when I got on the train home. I immediately phoned and paid what was a reduced charge at that point (much later in the day).

When I returned to my car, I had a PCCN. I'm still within the 14 days but don't fancy paying for a fake charge. When I get the notice to keeper letter, should I offer to pay the difference between what I did pay and what I should've paid or is the recommended approach simply to ignore completely?

Thanks,

kjharve

I am thinking you've wasted time reading old threads. IGNORE IS NOT CURRENT 2013 ADVICE so I am certain you've not read current threads here.

You wait for the NTK and then you could include a cheque for the difference that 'the driver' would have paid if they could have done earlier, yes, that's very reasonable. But sent as part of a challenge letter (appeal), like these examples on a pepipoo thread, not even telling them who was driving:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=80125&st=20&start=20

There's a second stage appeal = POPLA that you need to read up on. Stop reading old threads and looking for stuff specifically about APCOA (a typical mistake when people get a fake PCN). Much, much more important to read CURRENT threads about any PPC (not APCOA) to see the current advice.

kjharve

OK, so the NTK finally arrived on Friday. It was issued on the 8th August, so a full 52 days after the PCN:

http://postimg.org/image/u9sggrgtz/

I understand they have 14 days to send the NTK - is that correct?

If so, I'll send something along the lines of the following:

Name
Address

Date

Dear APCOA,

In reference to the speculative invoice received xxxxxx dated xxxxxx, the keeper denies all liability to your company as your Notice to Keeper is in breach of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

The particular point of my appeal - there are others, but this is the definitive one at this stage - is that you have failed to adhere to the strict timetable for sending out your notice to keeper as laid down in paragraphs 9(4) - (6) of the said POFA schedule 4.

If you care to read these paragraphs, you will see that your NTK to me fell outside this strict timescale. But I suspect that you probably knew this and are hoping I didn't. Sorry to disappoint.

Should you choose to ignore this valid challenge, the keeper requires within 35 days a POPLA verification code, as per the POPLA web site, where, after the appeal costing you £27 + VAT, the keeper will cite this, plus a number of other appeal points for POPLA adjudication.

The keeper has nothing further to add, and will not respond to any correspondence from your company unless it contains the POPLA code. Again, your reply is governed by the timescales of POPLA as shown on their web site, which may differ from the latest BPA COP.

The challenge will be deemed accepted if there is no POPLA code on any rejection that you supply within the time-frame stipulated above.

Yours faithfully

Your name (printed)


Will that do the trick?

Many thanks

nigelbb

kjharve wrote: »

OK, so the NTK finally arrived on Friday. It was issued on the 8th August, so a full 52 days after the PCN:

http://postimg.org/image/u9sggrgtz/

I understand they have 14 days to send the NTK - is that correct?

No.

If a Notice To Driver is left on the car then for a Notice To Keeper to be compliant with POFA 2012 it must be delivered no earlier than 28 days nor later than 56 days after the parking crime (the day after counting as Day 1).

If no NTD is left on the car then the NTK must be received with 14 days.

kjharve

Ok, thanks. So what's your recommended course of action?

Coupon-mad

Send APCOA a challenge, just like you will read examples of (not implying who was driving) as discussed/linked on pretty much every other thread on the current parking forum pages.

I would make it quite a strong appeal wording as APCOA have been known to just cancel when faced with one like this one I have written for you below, plagiarised from a Broadsword 'pepipoo special':



'Date: / /2013


Dear Sir/Madam,

‘Notice to Owner/Keeper’ ref number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

It is clear from your Notice of 8/8/2013 that you issued it with a view to pursuing keeper liability under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA). The BPA Code of Practice (CoP) supports the need for strict compliance (para 21.5 refers).

I write to challenge the Notice and to inform you that APCOA has failed to meet the strict requirements that might have enabled you to pursue this matter with myself (the registered keeper). In summary, you have issued a defective Notice to attempt to claim from me a charge in excess of the industry CoP maximum, on Railway-owned land where no keeper liability is likely to apply at all, due to local bylaws taking precedence.

I would draw your attention to the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. No doubt your legal advisors will be able to explain the issues which cause your misleading 'Notice to Owner/Keeper' to be a nullity in law, which include (but are not necessarily limited to):

- Claiming the right to 'registered keeper liability' under the POFA when that right is simply not available on land covered by local Bylaws. Railway or Airport land is generally not 'relevant land' under the definition within the POFA and if you contend otherwise I will require documentary evidence outlining the existence and wording of any current railway bylaws or written confirmation from the landowner that there are none applicable at this site.

- Copying the name of a Local Authority Notice by including the word 'Owner' in the title of a document that must (under POFA and the CoP) simply be called a 'Notice to Keeper' is misleading. This appears to me as a clear impersonation of authority - a stance which is specifically prohibited in the CoP.

- Failing to include specific identification as to who 'the Creditor' may be, is misleading and not compliant, in regards to paragraph 9(2)(h) of Schedule 4 of the POFA. Whilst your Notice has indicated that you require a payment to be made to APCOA, there is no specific identification of the Creditor, who may, in law, be APCOA or some other party. The POFA requires a ‘Notice to Keeper’ to have words to the effect that 'The Creditor is….' and your Notice does not.

- Claiming the sum of £105 exceeds the maximum set out in the CoP and is not only misleading but wholly unjustified. A private parking company has to specifically justify in advance - and obtain prior approval from the BPA Ltd - for any charge which exceeds £100. I require APCOA to provide me with a copy of your BPA-sanctioned approval for this excessive charge for this particular contravention at this particular site. I also require a full breakdown of how this amount has been calculated and whether you are alleging trespass or breach of contract. This information is required now, so that I can fully understand the basis for your 'charge' for the purposes of my POPLA appeal, should APCOA decide not to cancel this invoice immediately.

I will also require a copy of your contract with the landowner/occupier which you are relying upon. If it is a redacted copy then there must still be evidence in the document which shows that the contract complies with the CoP and specifically allows APCOA to pursue these 'charges' in their own name as creditor, in the courts.

If you pursue the matter against me as registered keeper and issue any further correspondence or make any form of contact (except to cancel the charge or reject the challenge and send me details of how to appeal to POPLA) this will be considered harassment. In that event I will lodge an official complaint with the BPA Ltd and the DVLA AOS Compliance Manager, as well as with the Office of the Information Commissioner. I also reserve the right to forward a complaint to the relevant Trading Standards office concerning your commercial practices which which appear to be in breach of the CPUTR and the CoP.

Take formal notice that I will of course include your client (the landowner and/or Train Operator) in any complaints and, in addition, they will be named as jointly and severally liable in any future court claim I may seek to lodge with MCOL, for damages for harassment and specific breaches of the above Acts.

I do not expect to receive a ‘generic’ template response and which fails to address the specific issues that I have raised with you. No further correspondence will be entered into, except a POPLA appeal which I will gladly submit if APCOA choose to fund that stage. No further warning will be given if I pursue the matter through the Small Claims Track against APCOA and your client at this site.

I therefore expect you to immediately cancel the ‘parking charge’ and inform me in writing that you have done so. In addition, APCOA are required to remove my personal data (and that of the vehicle) from all formats of storage, immediately following cancellation, since you have no lawful excuse to keep my data.

Yours faithfully,

PRINT NAME' (no need to give them your real signature)

kjharve

Thanks, that's really helpful.

Your response letter has the Notice to Owner/Keeper ref number at the top but the notice has no reference number on it, other than the original PCN number. Shall I quote that number instead or is this another requirement that they've failed on?

Coupon-mad

Yep just quote the PCN number and car reg at the top (they haven't failed in that regard!). My money is on them FOLDING!

kjharve

Fingers crossed! I'll let you know how I get on.

kjharve

This morning I received a letter from Debt Recovery Plus Ltd, now claiming £155 for the "ticket".

They have clearly ignored my letter (above) stating that I wish to appeal. So shall I now lodge a complaint with the BPA?

Coupon-mad

kjharve wrote: »

This morning I received a letter from Debt Recovery Plus Ltd, now claiming £155 for the "ticket".

They have clearly ignored my letter (above) stating that I wish to appeal. So shall I now lodge a complaint with the BPA?

BPA and DVLA and local Trading Standards too.

BPA = [EMAIL="steve.c@britishparking.co.uk"]steve.c@britishparking.co.uk[/EMAIL]

DVLA = [EMAIL="david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk"]david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL]

Trading Standards, write to them at your local Council, do not try to ring them as you will get a central fob-off 'helpline' for consumer queries. So instead, write to TS locally at the Council and send them the details and this information to urge them to investigate:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/63136064#Comment_63136064

As for DRP, same advice & links as I gave this poster earlier:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/63133019#Comment_63133019