Difficulty obtaining copy of lease

janette_swain

Am in process of buying a house-my solicitors only require a copy of the lease from the vendor to complete the conveyancing and thereby hangs the problem. The vendor has been unable to obtain a copy from the lease holding company. She paid over £100 to the company for a copy nearly 2 weeks ago and they sent a piece of paper with answers to questions but no lease document. Her solicitor then emailed my solicitor to say they had been unable to obtain a copy of the lease and we would have to obtain a copy if it was needed- my solicitors replied it was the responsibility of the vendor's solicitor's to provide the documents as requested.
The conveyancing process has now been going on for just over 7 weeks- the lease document was requested by my solicitor on 13th May and no response was received until I contacted the estate agent to ask where it was.
I have paid several hundred pounds so far and don't know what to do next-do I wait, or do I just walk away. The process is in limbo.
Any advice gratefully appreciated

ValHaller

Walk away.

Or read the riot act to your vendor and if it is not sorted within the week, walk away. The vendor does not need the 'leasehold company' to provide a copy of the lease. The vendor should either have this or be able to get it from the Land Registry.

Essentially, you are being messed around. As for the several hundred pounds spent already, you need to accept that this is money you spend to make sure everything is above board to protect yourself. If you lose it, it is money well spent.

zzzLazyDaisy

Your solicitor is absolutely right, it is for the vendor to provide the lease. If the lease is not available, you have no idea what your legal rights and obligations are. It is up to the vendor (or their solicitor) to pull their fingers out and do their job.

janette_swain

Thanx for reply.
Should have made it clear that there isn't a copy at Land Registry or at local council or with vendor.
Her solicitor must have known this within first week of conveyancing starting. But for some reason she chose to stall proceedings and not communicate with my solicitor.
My solicitor has said she can ask my mortgage provider if they will accept an indemnity insurance rather than the lease in order to complete the purchase.
Has anyone done anything similar?

ValHaller

janette_swain wrote: »

My solicitor has said she can ask my mortgage provider if they will accept an indemnity insurance rather than the lease in order to complete the purchase.
Has anyone done anything similar?

Don't go there. You will have the same problem arise as seller if you cannot provide the lease, IMO.

Insurances I have my doubts about in general. If you are going to rely on one, do it for something minor, not for the whole lease.

geoffky

Put your running shoes on..And get ready.

zzzLazyDaisy

janette_swain wrote: »

Thanx for reply.
Should have made it clear that there isn't a copy at Land Registry or at local council or with vendor.
Her solicitor must have known this within first week of conveyancing starting. But for some reason she chose to stall proceedings and not communicate with my solicitor.
My solicitor has said she can ask my mortgage provider if they will accept an indemnity insurance rather than the lease in order to complete the purchase.
Has anyone done anything similar?

Don't do this.

When I bought my house the lease was defective. They wanted me to accept an indemnity. I refused. After a lot of huffing and puffing the lease was re-done which meant getting affidavits and probably cost the sellers a bomb in legal fees. In my case it was possible to do this because the freeholder was still around and my sellers were the original lessees.

But I was ready to walk away.

xylophone

The "leaseholding company" - do you mean that X Co Ltd owns the freehold? If so, then X Co Ltd should have a copy of the lease?

janette_swain

The vendor has contacted the company she pays the ground rent to every year and paid £120 for a copy of the lease - this was at their request but they haven't sent her a copy-the only reply her solicitor has had is answers to questions she asked-so presumably they do hold the lease.
She has receipts for the yearly payments but not a copy of the lease.

From the advice I have got so far- withdrawing from the sale is looking most likely.

zzzLazyDaisy

This sounds strange. From what you say, it is the leaseholder to whom the ground rent is paid that is failing to provide a copy of the lease? But if the property is registered leasehold, the details of the leasehold should be on the registered title deeds which your solicitor will already have obtained from the land registry. As far as I know you wouldn't normally need the actual lease in that situation, but even if you did, the freeholder should easily be able to forward a copy to the vendor.

Which makes me wonder if the freeholder actually has a copy of the lease for that land. This would make me even less likely to consider this house. Why? Because the freeholds on leasehold properties are constantly being sold on. They are not worth much money in annual rents, their real value is the charges that are levied if the lessee misses a payment for some reason, and the chance of the house owner wishing to buy the freehold. Without sight of the lease (and with no record of it on the land registry documents) there is no evidence that the organisation that purports to be the freeholder is actually the correct body to receive the ground rent.

Sometimes this happens because a previous owner has purchased the freehold but for some reason this was not registered (I know someone that happened to and it took ages to sort out) or the freehold has been sold on but the current freeholder has not yet started chasing the missing ground rents. Or it may just be that the current freeholder really is the freeholder but they too have lost the original lease (so can't prove that they are entitled to receive the ground rents).

The thing about leasehold properties is that you never own the land that your house is built on. You literally just rent that land. If you can't prove there is a valid lease in existence, then you can't prove that you have the right to be on that land at all. So the lender would be extremely cautious about lending on a property like that.... and when you come to sell, you'll have the same problem as your vendor.

cattie

When the vendor bought the property, he/she would have been given a copy of the signed lease to keep, so are they sure they don't have it filed away somewhere? It would save a lot of trouble if they can remember what they did with it.